"Metagaming products: anyone know the copyright status?" Topic

I am curious about the boardgames once published by Metagaming Concepts (there doesn't seem to be a "Boardgame" forum here, but maybe that why this is TMP). Does anyone have knowledge of who might own these?

I know a couple of the boxed boardgames were republished by Avalon Hill briefly, and that Styeve Jackson bought the rights to The Fantasy Trip some years back. But what about the other Microgames and such? I don't know if the publisher of Metagaming (Howard Thompson) is even still alive or what would happen to the copyrights if he were not.

I'm curious in part because I worked at Metagaming for a stint and had one MicroHistory game published (Fury of the Norsemen) and it's just vanished into OP Game Limbo, far as I know. It's kinda a stinker on reflection, and I wouldn't want to buy back the rights unless they were dead cheap and I intended to redesign it. But, curiosity.

For awhile many of the Metagames were available through Excalibur who also got several Yaquinto titles.
Not sure about the specific title Fury of the Northmen.

Fury of the Norsemen?

Shut the door!

Congratulations – I love that game.

Ditto! Fury of the Norsemen is a great game— I would never categorize it as a "stinker." Excellent example of an asymmetrical conflict with differing yet still oppositional objectives. A redo would be greatly appreciated, I think!

You might check— it's possible that the rights have already reverted back to you as the author. A defunct publisher holds no rights, but if dissolved and sold, someone might.
The Wikipedia page on Metagaming asserts that SJG acquired the rights to The Fantasy Trip, et al, through 17 US Code (funky symbol) 203 as providing for return of rights to the author after 35 years. Consult an attorney, but here's the relevant section: link

In any case, if you did do a revision with new language and new art, there would be no conflict aside from the title. A game idea can't be copyrighted— only the specific words and art used to present that idea are copyrightable. The title, if Trademarked, might be different.

IANALNDIPOOTV

Remember, free legal advice is worth what you paid for it. Double that on the Internet.

PS. If you're ever Nashville way— say attending NashCon— I'd love to have you autograph my copy of FotN!

Some really good games came out of metagaming – shame how it turned out

Hola,
Egad, such typos! I posted in some haste initially. After I did so, I went on the Great Google Rabbit Trail and found a bunch of interesting news bits or discussions about Metagaming and The Fantasy Trip and learned quite a lot. Howard Thompson asked a quarter of a million from Steve Jackson back in the later 1980s for the rights to SJ's designs (ridiculous!) so they languished until just a few years ago when SJ's lawyers found a clause in the copyright laws (noted above!) that enabled him to claim ownership of a lot of those old games. And now they've been reissued in new forms.

So yeah, I suppose that would be an IN for me, too, but I really don't have the legal fees necessary to pursue it, not for a vanity project like this. But it is amusing to learn that I do have options!

I don't know if Howard Thompson, that irascible crank, is still alive or not.

I must say, I appreciate the kind words above. I haven't even LOOKED at FOTN in decades, let alone tried to play it again. It would be a foreign object to me now. I just don't remember being enamored of it after publication. And horrors, some very significant rules text was dropped from the booklet during production, after I'd turned in my components and mss., and the company had to stuff a small errata slip into the game box or it was impossible to even set up the game correctly! That wasn't helpful.

I'm in Madison WI these days, possibly relocating to San Antonio over the coming year, but I'd love to visit Nashville and see the Parthenon and take in a convention! Maybe I can work that out.

I sold my original design prototype along with a bunch of other Metagaming documents and memorabilia in the late 90s to collectors via eBay and some of that may still be on display on some website(s) out there -- I recall seeing photos years ago.

How did I miss Fury of the Norsemen back in the 1980s? I was playing Fantasy Trip, Car Wars, Warp War, and many others, but somehow never even saw Fury of the Norsemen.

I'll look for it at convention flea markets now.

link

Would be interesting to get the rights back to the ones I designed.

Bill, I got to the point that as long as the title,available, I just want people to be able to enjoy my designs. If they are just gathering dust, then I would like them back.

Very amused to find this. I never thought to look up the game on BoardgameGeek before: link

That's an excellent review. (And yeah, that errata sheet is important! My copy has it.)

Personally, the Divine Wrath rule has always been a favorite element of mine, because the tone of the game lends itself to a bit of period flavor— and hey, maybe on occasion a Viking raid might have gotten an unexpected whammy only attributable to "an act of God." Who am I to say it didn't happen? After all, historically the Christian targets eventually won out, and the Viking raids stopped! Besides, this is definitely a "root beer and pretzels" sort of game; a little bit of silliness only makes the game all the better!

A re-release would be welcome. I'd bet that if you can't take that on yourself, some game company would be happy to do it. A little update of the counter art would be my only significant recommendation.

Interesting discussion. I always assumed the rights reverted back to me (Artifact and a space fighter game that they bought about an hour before they folded) and have on my to do list a miniatures version of Artifact. Wherever Howard is, I wish him well, he got me started in this biz.

link

To get your rights back I think you need to spend money and go to court.

Not necessarily. If the rights have legally reverted to the creator, then whoever once had them has no claim. No need to go to court at all or pay any money at all. A defunct company isn't going to sue, as it doesn't exist as an entity anymore, and doesn't have any money to pay a lawyer to sue. So that's probably moot. Only if the company itself was sold off along with any rights held would the situation be something to bring before a court. Was Metagaming or its assets sold or claimed by creditors? Or did it just close its doors with no significant debts? If the latter, then wouldn't the rights revert to the creators? I would think so; anything else makes no sense.

IANAL, etc..

The original contract between the creator and publisher specifies how long the publisher has the rights, etc. Some contracts specify that the rights revert to the author after X years or after the work has been out of print for X years. My understanding is that the Metagaming contracts had neither of these provisions. Steve Jackson thus had to wait a lot of years for some statutory reason and then spend money and go to court. That's why he got the rights to his works but the artists did not get their rights back (wasn't worth the cost) so all new art was created for TFT. More details are at the SJ Games site, somewhere.

In any case, the other Metagaming content languishes. I *think* the creators can go get their rights back, but it's not free and probably not worth it. I believe I have all the Metagaming products I care about, so that's nice. I do see them from time to time at flea markets and there's always Noble Knight.

Pretty sure SJG just got the Fantasy Trip rights on the timeline when they simply reverted back to Stave and he launched the big KS forthwirh. Others are likely in the same boat. Doesn't seem to have involved a court case.

Can anyone find Brian Wilson please and get Rivets back out there?!?

The publisher only holds the rights as long as the publisher exists. The law is not an idiot.

Rights may be purchased from the publisher before it goes out of business, or be transferred to creditors under bankruptcy proceedings, but logically if the company goes out of business without either of these happening, then nothing exists to hold the rights and they must revert to the original creator.

If the rights were originally sold to the individual Howard Thompson, that might be different. But if they were sold to Metagaming as in incorporated entity, then Mr. Thompson logically should be out of luck. The point of copyright law is to allow creators the opportunity to profit from their innovative endeavors, not to prevent things from being published because someone else failed to keep a business going. It is absurd to assume that a company which went out of business 40 years ago has any claim to anything.

Rivets was a lot of fun as well – I tried to get as many of the metagaming games as I could afford.

How has Sticks and Stones held up, I wonder?

I could find myself in a position soon of being able to afford limited court costs to sort out the ownership rights to Fury of the Norsemen, but then I'd be compelled to get it re-released (who would publish it?) and wholly revised -- not just made prettier, but expanded and improved. Not confined to the MicroGame format.

But I just sort of prefer "Fire & Axe" these days when I want to play a fun Viking game. It's multiplayer, tho.

I supplied a Designer's Notes article to one of the Interplay issues that I don't have anymore -- seems like I provided some additional optional rules and a new scenario. Anyone have that issue and can provide me a scan of those pages?

I want to think that I put in some option for the Vikings to call upon Odin, some sort of counter-balance to the "Divine Wrath" available to the clerics. But maybe not. I thought a touch of a fantasy element made the game more cartoonish and fun. I did have comic strips from Prince Valiant and Hagar the Horrible pasted on my prototype game box, after all!

Sticks & Stones is still entertaining enough. But there are a number of prehistoric rules available now that bring more flavour: Tusk, Paleo Diet, Prehistoric Settlement, Tribal Primeval,(DinoMight currently OOP with the closure of Magister Militum), probably others I'm missing.