"when will China attack?" Topic

@steve wilcox:

GEN. HARRIGIAN: Thanks for that.

So let me go back to the application of self-defense ROE and the understanding that half those troops were in contact, our SDF partners and Coalition advisers there.

When those kinds of activities occur, the ground commander is ultimately the individual that's going to make the decision, because they're taking fire, they're closest to that situation and we empower them to make those decisions, because that's how self-defense ROE is applied. And that's exactly how that played out."

Not really. The CinC determines that. In this case, Trump authorized a weapons-free environment and let the Military do what they needed to do.

That's in stark contrast with the Benghazi fiasco where the Biden Admin (re: SecState Clinton) actively suppressed a military response and issued "stand down" orders to relieving units because they were afraid in so doing the scope and nature of the attack would be revealed…"allied" Jihadis angry about a weapons deal gone bad.

Also in contrast to the FALL OF AFGHANISTAN where the Biden admin overrode Military leadership to force the self-imposed rout from Kabul.

Benghazi fiasco where the Biden Admin

My mistake -- I meant Obama, but I feel that Biden was just a meat puppet for Obama's third term as president…our first "shadow" president…

The three day operation came out in a translation of a televised speech, made by Putin, just after the first Russian troops attacked into Ukraine. At least that's when I first heard it. I don't speak Russian (or any other language, with the marginal exception of English), so I don't how accurate the translation was. It seems to have been heard, or read about, by most of the people on this board, at least. You haven't heard it in Russia, I know. But you also know that some things get broadcast in the West by Russia, but not in Russia. There's been a couple of times, at least, when links about various things you've questioned have been posted. I don't remember you responding to many, though.

Dal Gavan, Soviet Russia has been gone for thirty years. There is no ideological confrontation.

The name has gone, mate, but Russia's actions trigger a sense of déjà vu. As for Finland, it knows that Russian troops will cross the border if there's unrest /sabre rattling (not the current squabbling) between Russia and the Western European nations.

Let's agree to disagree, mate. Both of us can only make judgements- or more correctly, guesses- based on what the professional gossip-mongers put into the media of our countries, and what the governments allow to be broadcast. By the time the truth comes out our grand-kids will probably be old age pensioners. (Unless some maniac starts a nuke war, or being preached to by self-appointed, virtue-signalling advocates of the latest crise catastrophique du jour has bored everyone to death.)

Dal Gavan, I don't read much Russian press and watch TV. I have been an "information consumer" of Internet content for decades, mostly foreign. With the help of new technologies, I can read and listen to videos translated from any language.

I specifically looked for the source of the statement attributed to Putin about "three days". He has never made such a statement. There was a statement in 2014 about "two weeks" in 2014.

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But then it would have been exactly like that, in my opinion. The Ukrainian army was paralyzed after the coup, and only Nazi volunteer battalions could resist.
The statement about three days first appeared in General Milley's message published by Fox News:

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Russia has been "rattling its weapons" since 2007. Putin's speech in Munich. He warned back then that continuing the policy of NATO's eastward expansion would lead to a military clash. Then Western politicians openly laughed at him in the hall. And Putin proposed a united Europe "from Lisbon to Vladivostok"…

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I don't think it's worth postponing the discovery of the truth for so long. All the necessary information is there and exists, it's just buried under piles of information garbage created from interpretations. And all you need to do is find the original source ;)

China's Defense Budget Is Bigger than You Think

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Armand

"China's Defense Budget Is Bigger than You Think"😂

Why should it not be? The West has paid for it….. lemmings willing walking off the cliff. 😡

The statement about three days first appeared in General Milley's message published by Fox News

I don't know what Fox reports, mate. I don't have Foxtel, nor any other pay-to-view service- not worth the money they want. I watch a couple of free to air news services, but don't trust them to be always accurate, let alone unbiased. As for finding the truth on the net, let me say I'm extremely dubious about the chances of that. The "Information Super Highway" was a dream. The "Information Putrid Sewer System" is the reality.

I don't think it's worth postponing the discovery of the truth for so long. All the necessary information is there and exists, it's just buried under piles of information garbage created from interpretations. And all you need to do is find the original source

Easier said than done. And finding the original source can as easily mean nothing, depending on our own biases and beliefs.

Profits, more like it. Free market used to be conservative value.

"Bai Lan" -- a Chinese term, just heard about it and I guess it's a thing that started a few years back and was first called "Laying Flat," but now it's sweeping China's GenZ and younger Millennials and the CCP can't hide it anymore.

It means "Let it Rot" -- let the rotten system die by doing nothing. Don't strive, just slack. Do enough to get by, do nothing if you can because in current-day China there's no hope for a future.

Dal Gavan, it is strange that you believe someone's statements about "Putin's intentions to conquer Ukraine in three days" without having any sources at all to confirm such a statement… If there is no confirmed fact – then it is simply a "newspaper canard". There is so much talk about this that there should be a huge number of references to such a statement (where and when). But there is not a single one…

Dal Gavan, it is strange that you believe someone's statements about "Putin's intentions to conquer Ukraine in three days" without having any sources at all to confirm such a statement

I agree it was a mistake to take the story on face value, mate. I thought it was an accurate translation of what Putin was saying, because it was televised by what I thought was a fairly reputable (if biased) source- our Australian Broadcasting Commission (the government-funded, supposedly independent, state media service).

Their other actions since that have cured me of that gullibility, though, and they are as bad as any other gossip-monger platform. The "three days" was also reported in/on other gossip-monger platforms, as well.

"Our ABC" have been caught doing "inventive editing" of news items for political/ sensationalist purposes (see links), which makes me doubt the original three days story. Plus
you present an opposing view. However, there's no evidence to conclusively say what he truth is- either could be right, or neither.

The mute button gets used now, as soon as I recognise any politicians' face or voice- domestic or foreign. I don't have a choice about living with the consequences of their varying action, but I do have a choice of not listening to them.

If any Aussie thinks I'm being too harsh in criticising "Aunty", then have a look at the links and explain why nobody, particularly the reporters and news editors, haven't been sacked?

The ABC clearing itself of doctoring a report to make it look like Australian troops committed a particular war crime:

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The court found the ABC guilty of slander: link .

Then there's this:

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Which is exposed as another lie by:

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The trouble is that we now live in a "post-truth" world.
Post-truth is a situation in which objective facts are less important in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotions and subjective beliefs.
Post-truth is an information flow that is deliberately constructed in modern society using mass media to create a virtual reality that is different from reality in order to manipulate public consciousness.
Post-truth is the death of democracy and a free society. People are simply excluded by this method from the possibility of seriously influencing the reality around them. They will be controlled and obedient.
It would be strange that representatives of the ruling structures would persecute those who, in fact, are the guarantors of their power and well-being.
Now, in order to navigate the world, it is necessary to look for pearls of real facts in a sea of ​​lies and dishonest interpretations. And the first thing that should alert you is the appeal of the source to your emotions, and not to your mind. This is a stop signal.

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The trouble is that we now live in a "post-truth" world.

That's an interesting social theory, Cuprum, and appeals greatly to my cynical self. It also broadly fits my own thoughts on the media of today. You forgot one point, though- the deliberate cultivation and exacerbation of divisions in societies. You see a sample of it here, with the pro- and anti-US president factions. It's not worked as well in Australia- instead of splitting the populace into two supporting factions, grouped around the two major party machines, they're both bleeding supporters.

That's enough of this ordure, though. The PRC may or may not attack another nation. A current or future conflict may get out of hand and escalate into a full NBC horror. Trump/Putin/Xi (never Albanese, nor Dutton) may or may not be remembered as a great statesman. Russia may stop punishing Ukraine for being independent. Nobody will know what lays in the future until it becomes the present.

The split in society that we are currently seeing in the US, in my opinion, is purely economic in nature. The financial and real sectors of the economy have entered into conflict. I believe that a serious economic crisis has been developing in the world since about the beginning of the century, caused by the uncontrolled growth of financial capital, which is not backed by any real assets. The bubble is huge. And it must burst someday, and quite soon. It will be a storm worse than the "Great Depression" of the 1930s. Trump is trying to prepare the US for this explosion. But, in my opinion, he is already too late… Although we will see.
This is why Trump, by the way, is eager to audit the Federal Reserve and audit gold reserves in the United States. This is precisely why he is so interested in electronic money (funds that bankers do not control).
And in this struggle, both sides are actively using post-truth technology. Whoever wins will tell us the truth ;)

None of us can influence current events in the world. But the sinking of the Titanic is still a very exciting spectacle. If you have enough room in the boat, you can talk a lot about it later)))

"And in this struggle, both sides are actively using post-truth technology. Whoever wins will tell us the truth ;)"

And then Hollywood will make a movie of it.

Caprum2 and Dal

"The split in society that we are currently seeing in the US, in my opinion, is purely economic in nature. "

You could not be more wrong. It has nothing to do with economics. You have rich, poor and middle, on each side. It is ideologies.

It can be as simple as the concept of only 2 sexes, or as complicated as globalism and the U.S. future in it or out of it. There is so much, but not economics.

Don't confuse internal U.S. ideological differences, with the current world tariff issues. If you hear a side advocating for or against, that is just symbolic of their divisions politically.

Cuprum, I think you may not be quite correct here. IMO –

The culture wars were fanned by apolitical media moguls like the Murdochs. These conflicts are generating huge wealth for social media as well. So in some sense you are right.

But the Murdochs knew how to tap in to people's disaffections and change their perceptions. They and their counterparts created an angry world of blamer culture that has torn us in two. Each side has scapegoats for everything. It is nuts.

For every single piece of news we get from nearly any source, we are told who to blame after the two minutes of thoughts and prayers. People stick to this like glue: Everything means trouble and the same someones are always to blame.

Also – its the banks who avoid Trump. His business history makes him personna non-grata in traditional lending firms. Even the big accounting firms avoid him. So he had to turn to overseas sources of capital. And "Funds that bankers do not control" attract him. If he is trying to save the world, the plan still is not clear. Fog of trade war.

Have to agree with 35th,

The culture wars have deeply divided the US. There are those who look more to the past and find a better way of life and a stronger US and there are those that look to the future and see progress as a sort of anything goes, no restrictions on the individual and what they do and this is a better way of life.

You have urban areas and the East and West coast that tend to look down on the rural and small town people and see the south and mid-west as fly over country. Then, you have many who see urban centers as full of crime, corruption and liberalism.

This all leads to deep divisions only made worse by the Far left and the Far right trying to capitalize on this division rather than trying to heal it.

Add to this covid, a poor economy, a series of weak or divisive leaders and we are in a mess.

You could not be more wrong.

I don't think it's purely economic. Remember that Cuprum is a self-declared Marxist, so will see everything through money-coloured glasses- though economics will exacerbate the divisions.

The issue is a multi-faceted beastie, created from a lot of things- tribalism, envy, politics, the crise du jour, differences in scientific theories, what Grattan listed, etc- encouraged and exacerbated by pollies, sensation-hungry gossip-mongers, activists (domestic and foreign) and, for all I know, the man who fought the monkey in the beer barrel (apologies to the late, great Mr Pratchett).

Anyone who's offering quick-fix solutions is just another snake-oil salesperson, offering the social equivalent of an elixir of life or a philosopher's stone (or 100% recyclable batteries).

apolitical media moguls like the Murdochs

No, Tort. Before he fled to the US Rupert was a major supporter and booster for our more conservative parties. But he's also an opportunist, and would leap on a juicy rumour or story (true, false or questionable). In other words, a typical rumour-monger.

You are right, Dal Gavan – I am a Marxist and therefore I believe that there are economic reasons for everything))) As the Romans said: "CUI BONO?"
I do not claim to know the truth. I am not so deeply immersed in all the twists and turns of the intra-American political struggle.
But I know that the reason is always, ultimately, money. Unless, of course, it is a religious (ideological) conflict. Although, if you look at them more closely, the reason is often the same – the economic benefit of one part of the people at the expense of another part of the people, only with a different ideology. And all these emotional waves are just information support for the conflict and the struggle to attract supporters to their side.
Behind Trump stands a group of very rich people whose interests he defends, and behind Trump's opponents stands a group of very wealthy and influential people whose well-being is threatened by Trump's actions. This is the cause of the conflict. Everything else is only tactics.
When viewed from this angle, all of Trump's inexplicable actions become understandable and natural. As, indeed, are the actions of his opponents.

Caprum the issues existed before Trump. The divisions started during the Carter administration. Although some may say they go as far back as Johnson. But for myself, they started under Carter. The divisions started to become clear under Ronald Reagan, as the media really started to take sides. They remained the same under Bush. Increased under Clinton, while he allowed Hillary to do things for 2 years. Calmed after that and again stayed the same under Bush2. Then the divisions really became pronounced under the next 4 Presidents.

Although I have started to see hope in the current younger generation, just able to vote. Especially the males. The ones most affected by the COVID lockdowns and the Biden administration policies of DEI, illegal invasions, male shaming and multi gender ideology.

Also – its the banks who avoid Trump. His business history makes him personna non-grata in traditional lending firms. Even the big accounting firms avoid him. So he had to turn to overseas sources of capital.

And I'm sure the organized politically motivated lawsuits against Trump and political pressure applied by the Democrats and the Left against every facet of his businesses doesn't factor into it…

OVI, Tort, SBm, Gratten +1/ea.

SB…there is not much doubt that Trump's own business decisions led to his status with the American financial industry. Bankruptcies tend to do that. He is not a victim. The folks who went to Trump University can tell you. And they are not Democrats. Watch Trump's deposition in that case on YouTube. Not just his statements, but his tone. Nuff said.

A little on the topic of the thread: Between 21 February and 9 March 2025, China's People's Liberation Army Navy sailed around Australia for the first time ever, and carried multiple live fire exercises close to the Australian coastline. One of them took place just outside Sydney, disrupting international flights.

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I am a Marxist and therefore I believe that there are economic reasons for everything

"The only difference between a Marxist and a banker is their bank balances."

Between 21 February and 9 March 2025, China's People's Liberation Army Navy sailed around Australia for the first time ever, and carried multiple live fire exercises close to the Australian coastline. One of them took place just outside Sydney, disrupting international flights.

Not quite true, mate, and sensationalised by the gossip-mongers. The first live fire exercise was SE of where I live, 280km south of Sydney. With one exception the PLA-N stayed 300km from both the Australian and NZ coasts. The exception was when they transited Bass Straight, a recognised international sea lane. The live fire was, I think, deliberately chosen to make the news, as flights to and from NZ had to be diverted. Later a "civilian" survey ship did the same route, but entered the EEZ a few times.

The gossip-mongers went feral about the live-fire exercises (there was more than one) and the "just off Sydney" comes from sensationalist Aussie gossip-monger platforms.

Nobody here was particularly worried, despite the worst efforts of the gossip-mongers. We knew the McDonald and Heard Island penguins were keeping an eye on the PLA-N excursion.

A banker can be a Marxist too. But if these ideas are implemented, his capital will become public property. I think most bankers will not be able to put up with this)))

On the part of China, this is a demonstration of force. A successful demonstration. The details don't matter that much.

A banker can be a Marxist too. But if these ideas are implemented, his capital will become public property. I think most bankers will not be able to put up with this)))

Nor would most of the Marxists, mate. ;-)

On the part of China, this is a demonstration of force.

True, but I think it was for Chinese consumption more than anyone else's. A "fleet" of two frigate equivalents and a fleet oiler/supply ship isn't even as big as the RAN or RNZN. The survey ship was a bigger worry, because it could map the seabed near ports, etc, for sub's and landings.

No worries, the penguins are on it.

Dal +1…the Chinese fleet has less range and endurance overall than the US. In a war, cutting off their oil will make this evident.

China does these things for home consumption to reinforce the long held belief that foreigners are out to get them, and China will not stand for it.

No worries, the penguins are on it.

Hey, man, those Penguins are scary! Did you know that they exported something like $1.4 USD Million in electrical equipment and machine parts to the US the other year? That's why the islands were on the tariff list.

So either:
1) Chinese companies used the Islands for false bills of lading to avoid duties and tariffs, OR

2) The Penguins are hyperintelligences who can manufacture and export complex machinery made from sea shells, bird guano and sea weed!

the Chinese fleet has less range and endurance overall than the US. In a war, cutting off their oil will make this evident.

True, Tort. That could be one reason they're cultivating Putin. I don't think Russia could supply all the POL the PRC needs, but I could be wrong.

Chinese companies used the Islands for false bills of lading to avoid duties and tariffs, OR

It could be anyone, SBm- middlemen, resellers, even the companies who received the shipments. But it's not one-way traffic, it also goes the other way, too. Central and South American fruit and Mexican beef have both been shipped to Australia by US exporters, under the Oz-US free-trade agreement. That's the reason that "US beef" and bananas are banned here. It's not a ban on US farmers/growers (does the US have banana plantations?), as reported in the US. The US exporters were exporting cheap, 3rd rate Mexican beef (which our supermarket duopoly was more than happy to mark up to Australian beef prices and put on the shelf), and Mexico has both Foot-and-Mouth and BSE. Apparently the bananas came from Central America- including Panama- home of Panama Disease in bananas.

We take out biosecurity very seriously. Just ask that idiot Johhny Depp and his blonde bimbo girlfriend.

Penguins are hyperintelligences

Penguins are apparently very cute. But I haven't heard of Mensa enrolling any. Still, they did teach James Bond how to dress for formal dinners.

Dal Gavan, I can't say anything about Marxist bankers. I don't know a single one)))

As of 2024, Russia ranks sixth in the world in uranium production – 2,508 tons per year.

Tortorella, that's probably why Trump wants reconciliation with Russia. Perhaps he himself will want to buy from her that oil that could be sold to China in case of war?

America's Next War Begins at Home

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Armand

Cuprum, again Trump does not control American oil. It is still a free market commodity. Russian infrastructure cannot yet get enough oil to China to make up for China's other suppliers being shut down by blockade in a war

Armand, +1 We are not prioritizing China's cyber attack plans, just took out our own cyber commander for alleged lack of political loyalty. Luckily political loyalty also rules the Chinese hierarchy as well.

🤔 "loyalty". It should not be a criteria?

But in the last administration, who you slept with, your color, your race, your gender were all criteria. Not qualifications. Meeting specific criteria was.

Was not the party of those selected also a criteria? Party loyalty?

You can't say the same about the current administration, party wise.

After getting burnt by life longer deep staters and democrats in the Departments in his first term and even some in this so far, I would think loyalty WOULD be a criteria.

You can't accomplish anything, with those who hate you and oppose your agendas.

Well with something as vitally important as that, I would have thought MERIT rather than loyalty would be the way to go. Assume the dude has 'loyalty' to the country and only remove him if it seems other biases play into the job at hand.

Silurian

Merit had nothing to do with qualifications of the last administration, (actually others as well). Filling promised quotas did. A border czar who avoided the border? A head of the department of defense who didn't tell the President he was out of commission. The list of incompetence is long. But other than people like me, on TMP, no one seemed to care. The MSM sure didn't! You rarely saw any of them.

This administration: You see these people everywhere. The border czar on the border and even in El Salvador. The defense secretary everywhere. Kennedy everywhere. Rubio everywhere. Duffy everywhere. Need I go on? They are at locations talking about, or doing their jobs. I know that is NOT being shown on most outlets. But I do watch Fox and see it almost daily being covered. I read sources on the "right" that do cover it.

Type this into google:

When was the last strike on a ship by the Houthis

I got nothing on Houthi strikes on ships, but plenty on our hitting them, the latest 24 hours ago.

Loyalty is important in any administration. Especially when non loyalty burned you so badly before (un-named sources and military men reassuring the media that they were in charge and not the president). But loyalty and competence as well. So far, none of these people have proven incompetence to me. Unlike the cast of characters in the last administration.

Let's be honest. If you did not vote for him, you are going to find fault, especially when the MSM screams faults 24-7.

🤔 Just think! If Biden had been smart enough to charge a toll to invade the U.S. on the border! We might have paid off the debt!!

35th, I think the answer is merit and loyalty, but find somebody who can do the job and is loyal to you, not just loyal to you. If Biden was guilty as you say, he deserves the criticism. I am not contradicting you.

But we disagree about Hesgeth's ability to do this high level, incredibly varied and complex job. He was a mid level field commander, a tv pundit. The fat cats in Congress who control the contracts may have him for lunch, IMO.

In Trump's first time around, most of his top military advisors were dumped or left. They have said a variety of things and I do not know for sure what is true. But they did express multiple concerns about their boss, and the reasons they gave concerned his understanding and management of his office.

These men had different backgrounds than Hesgeth. Some may have been self-serving, but too many commanders had too many questions, in my opinion. I think around 250 retired military commanders signed a letter supporting Trump for the last in election. In 2020, more than 700 signed one that opposed him. The divide over Trump may be the legacy of these times.

As far as I know, it is not the nature of the office of the Secretary of Defense to make loyalty to the President's agenda an unbending No 1 prerequisite of his job, which is to defend the United States.

Yep Tort, we have a different perspective on this.

To me, a carrier military general, more than likely a deep stater, is no more qualified than the current. What he may lack in administrative skills of the deep state general, he makes up for with front line experience and identifiability to the front line soldiers, which the deep state general lacks. I know Pete is a favorite of many in the elite units.

I know recruiting is up. I know Pete goes to the troops and does not sit back and get fat, in a chair and dinners back in DC.

He has my support until something proves it wrong (and not the MSM). 😉 Hopefully Trump will not listen to the press or the globalist in the party.

Actually I believe that is the true battle. Not deep staters, globalists. Those who listened and watched too much "Star Trek" and believed a "Federation" was really possible. 😉

To me, a carrier military general, more than likely a deep stater, is no more qualified than the current.

Former SecDef Austen comes to mind -- whatever "edge" he developed during his career dulled to pablum during his many years as a defense lobbyist. A non-entity who did whatever he was told, so ineffectual that he literally went AWOL for two weeks to get surgery he told nobody about (he was afraid he'd be replaced if he was out sick), and NOBODY NOTICED!

35th,

Can one not say that Biden did a poor job in choosing people for his cabinet and that Trump may also have made poor choses.

I get tired of the "what about arguments." I don't think anyone was saying Biden made great choices. It was right to criticize them. It can also be true that Trump has made some poor picks too, Hegseth and RFK Jr come to mind, neither side has a monopoly on everything being good and right and perfect.

I think Biden was a very poor president and it was obvious he was in mental and physical decline. It was wrong for his administration to hide that from us. Now, given that, can I also say I am critical of Trump too? Does it have to be one side or the other? One side is holy and the other side evil?
You talk about the constant anti-trump rhetoric being too much and going overboard. I can see that. However, so is the constant "Trump can do no wrong" rhetoric. That gets old and overdone as well.

I support no party. There are millions like me, I think. People here tore into Biden for for years, conflating him with Hillary and Obama, never a positive word. I agreed some of the time, and more so inthe second half of the term. But I did not agree that Trump had all the answers. And he does not look that way now. The campaign promises were silly, I knew that. I am glad for border security though. I don't remember hearing there would be some pain last summer…only that everything was Biden. Still happening. But a recession will belong to Trump.

Team Trump could not be more unlike the everyday Americans they now control. Beyond wealthy, remarks out of touch with average people. But it is still early and I am willing to keep my fingers crossed.

Grattan54 if I come off as a "Trump can do no wrong", which I do not believe, it is because I and others on TMP, fought for multiple years to get anyone to admit the defects of the Biden administration and the bias and lies of the MSM. Go back through old TMP threads. The things said about us when we said Biden had dementia. That Covid came from a lab. Masks do not work. The shot did not stop Covid nor prevented its spread. The laptop was not Russian disinformation. Again I could go on, but I think you see my point.

You kick a dog enough, he's going to bite back.

Some of Trumps picks may turn out bad. But 1) They were his picks to make 2) They have only been there just over 3 months.

I want them to have time.

I hope you and others realize, that since approximately day 2, the barrage of anti Trump vitriol has been rampant. Sometimes I think Hitler and Stalin got better press.

Case in point:

"MSNBC host Jen Psaki admitted on Tuesday that her network's liberal audience expects coverage of President Donald Trump that is "typically not going to be positive" as her role expands.

"We're going to talk about what the opposing party is up to, in terms of Democrats, and we're going to talk about future leaders and things. And, we're also going to talk about Trump, and it's typically not going to be positive," Psaki said on "The Grill Room" podcast with Dylan Byers."

Only difference, MSNBC admits it.

Subject: Psaki says MSNBC viewers expect negative coverage of Trump


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Fair enough.

"…the barrage of anti Trump vitriol has been rampant. Sometimes I think Hitler and Stalin got better press."

That sounds famil… hang on a minute, are YOU Trump? :)

I calls them as I hears them. 😉

This man is NOT Trump! For one thing, nobody owns a gold toilet in Ohio!

Silver? 😉

Hmmm . . . this one is apparently only painted gold, but it's in Ohio, out on Hardin Wapakoneta Road. I wonder who might live there . . . :)

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