"Multiple countries pull out of landmine treaty" Topic

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Yep. A great defensive weapon. Neighbors of Russia China and Iran have taken note. The area between N and S Korea is already the heaviest mined area in the world.

Good for them!

It's a great treaty to have in times of peace.
But with war and possible invasion in the near future, not so much.

Yes, mines have proven to be very useful as Anti-Access/Area Denial weapons.

The area between N and S Korea is already the heaviest mined area in the world.

Yes, we still have them on the ROK DMZ. We have to. I was with a forward deployed Mech unit there. Having 2 tours, '84 and '85.

It is only a truce there, the war is still going on, per se. It was a comfort to those of us at the camps, installations, the FOB, Guard Posts, etc. in the area.

Can't imagine any deliberate defense that is going to be in place for an extended period of time. Not using mines …

A great defensive weapon

This is b@ll@cks. They only work properly when covered by fire. Otherwise they just blow peoples arms and legs off.

Our Princess of our Hearts must be spinning in her grave: HALO Trust – Princess Diana and Minefields

When they are necessary and used properly they can be effective. The problem is dealing with the aftermath.

Well based my experience with 2 tours on the DMZ in the ROK. The fact that the minefields were marked and covered by fire and or observation where FA could be called in. They have an effect.

Plus marked they can channelize the enemy into kill zones. Or just cause them to withdraw. So, they seem to be quite effective.

However, if unmarked they are just basically booby traps. Which in a combat situation can also be effective in stopping or channelizing the enemy. Or forcing them to withdraw.

Even not covered by fires. It will slow up the enemy's advance/attack. They have to find a way thru or around. With CE assets, AFVs with mine plows, etc. a path could be cleared. But that takes time.

And If covered by fire even with CEs, etc. it is a very difficult mission while being shot at.

Today even in the NA Desert, the millions of mines laid by both sides during WWII. Sometimes someone still runs into them.

The situation is the same in the PI. Where the IJFs in WWII laid who knows how many mines and booby traps. Or in SE Asia, during the wars in that region. During and after WWII.
The local forces did the same thing. Many are still there. Still killing or maiming.

As in Iraq, Syria and A'stan …

To stop legitimate militaries from laying mines mark or otherwise. Reminds me of E.g If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

Well based my experience with 2 tours on the DMZ in the ROK. The fact that the minefields were marked and covered by fire and or observation where FA could be called in. They have an effect.

Plus marked they can channelize the enemy into kill zones. Or just cause them to withdraw. So, they seem to be quite effective.

However, if unmarked they are just basically booby traps. Which in a combat situation can also be effective in stopping or channelizing the enemy. Or forcing them to withdraw.

Even not covered by fires. It will slow up the enemy's advance/attack. They have to find a way thru or around. With CE assets, AFVs with mine plows, etc. a path could be cleared. But that takes time.

And If covered by fire even with CEs, etc. it is a very difficult mission while being shot at.

Today even in the NA Desert, the millions of mines laid by both sides during WWII. Sometimes someone still runs into them.

The situation is the same in the PI. Where the IJFs in WWII laid who knows how many mines and booby traps. Or in SE Asia, during the wars in that region. During and after WWII.
The local forces did the same thing. Many are still there. Still killing or maiming.

As in Iraq, Syria and A'stan …

To stop legitimate militaries from laying mines mark or otherwise. Reminds me of E.g If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

There's two problems with mines, though:

1. If you don't cover the mines with observation and fire they can be lifted and used against you. That was a favourite trick of the NVA/VC, who used the mines from a poorly sited and covered Australian minefield at Nui Dat to supply them with most of the mines used in Phuoc Tuy province.

2. They can be just as big a problem to remove when they are no longer needed. As you noted, there's still thousands around the world that were left, deliberately or otherwise, because it was too much trouble to remove them.

There's been some work on developing time- or signal-initiated disarming of mines, but the last I'd heard was they haven't been completely successful as yet.

I agree, and history demonstrates that, especially in in SE Aisa. IIRC much of the former Indochina is full of them left over and forgotten.

Something we were trained from lessons most recently learned at that time from the war in Vietnam. To look for, probe, etc. mines and booby traps. We were also taught based on the predilections of the VC, etc. That many of our mines had anti-handling devices. That means if you find the mine and clear around it. Then pick it up the anti-handling device will go off. So just mark it and later the CEs, etc. will blow it in place.

We also learn how to make booby traps/IEDs from some experiences in previous conflicts. But from the Vietnam war i.e. the VC, NVA, etc.

But like many things advancing tech/AI will probably come up with a way to actually clear known or possible mine fields, and booby traps/IEDs.

IMO currently the best way is to use the MICLIC. To clear a path thru the mines. But it also was used in Iraq to clear a street in a hurry. Fire the MICLIC up the street you need to clear. Detonate it … repeat as needed.

Anyone hiding in those buildings lining the street. In ambush or just hiding, won't be for very long. And survivors will probably get out of Dodge rather quickly.

It sounds like we had the same mine warfare instructors, mate. Using long blades of grass to see if doors and windows have trip- or pull-wires attached, find and mark mines- never try to lift or disarm them, probe cache covers in case they're wired up, check claymores haven't been turned around during clearing patrols, duck walking 100m while probing, etc. It's one part of a green skin I don't miss.

Today's command-initiated IED, using mobile phones, is a new dimension to all of that, and I'm glad I missed it.

PS- we called the MICLIC a "Python" or "Snake". I only saw it blown, once, on a firepower demo EX in the early '90's. Impressive, even at 1k away. The safety template was a joke, you needed bino's to see some of the serials, but I suppose they had to be careful because the media and pollies turned up to watch.

Time to buy stock in Alliant Techsystems LLC.

It sounds like we had the same mine warfare instructors, mate.

Well we both had troops in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. We learned a lot of lessons …

Today's command-initiated IED, using mobile phones, is a new dimension to all of that, and I'm glad I missed it.

As tech gets better more ways to blow things up are invented. E.g. the IDF's/Mossad's Pager bomb … A master stroke up there with the Trojan Horse.

we called the MICLIC a "Python" or "Snake".

Cool name ! I love the idea the troops figured out to use in to clear village/town streets.

Time to buy stock in Alliant Techsystems LLC.

I think my broker already did.

War is good for business

War is bad for business

But no matter how bad it gets … someone always makes a profit …

War is a dieing business…and…business is good !

😎