"US Tariffs and the Hobby" Topic

If the current U.S. tariffs remain in effect – which they might not, as I understand they are negotiating tools – how will this effect the miniature wargaming hobby?

The CEO at Steve Jackson Games has said they can't immediately revert to U.S. production, as "…the infrastructure to support full-scale boardgame production – specialty dice making, die-cutting, custom plastic and wood components – doesn't meaningfully exist here yet."

Will this shift more production away from lead and toward plastic/resin figures? Or accelerate the move from physical books to eBooks? Do tariffs apply on digital products?

Whose products are made in the U.S.A., and which are made in foreign countries? Which companies saw this coming and already made adjustments, or at least laid in stockpiles to tide them over?

I can see SJG being concerned as almost all board game components are made in China but that also applies to board games all over the rest of the world. Die-cut counters for board wargames are still made in both the UK & US (as far as I know) but, if the recent prices of such games are indicative, they must be very expensive to produce.

Manufacture of wargame figures is much more dispersed so many wargamers will have a (relatively) local source though choice and scope will be impacted. 3D printing is now getting down to the smaller scales (my interest) but only in limited ranges.

There will be problems exporting to the US and sales volumes may well decline but that has already happened with increased shipping costs so I think the market will tolerate the price shifts eventually.

Whether any of us will be able to afford ANY new toys in the global chaos this is causing is another matter.

A 'Trade War' would likely spark a recession in the US (& elsewhere).
It is generally agreed that a recession occurs when there is a period of reduced output and a significant increase in the unemployment rate.
So, in terms of the thread topic, fewer goods for sale & unemployed workers won't have the money to buy them anyway.

ochoin, thanks for the optimistic outlook. ( just kidding). I was hoping to put in a order to Perrys for some Travel Battle figs later this year, but maybe I won't be able to. Darn. So close to my goal but yet so far.

It's going to be interesting to see how it is all supposed to work. From what I have read, the tariffs will be applied at the border.

So does that mean when I send an order to a customer in the USA, the customer pays the 10% on collection from the post office, or, does the 10% get applied at purchase time by the local postal service as part of a tax on postage? (And then passed on to USA authorities?)
I suppose the purchasers credit card company could apply the 10% when the purchase is made and they detect it is an overseas sale and therefore an import?

When I import items for my shop, UPD/FedEx charge me and add a handling fee. The handling fee might not matter on an order of $2,000 USD but it would on an order of $50. USD

Almost everything I sell comes from Europe. I'll just raise prices accordingly.

I watched an importer explain that he pays the tariff and then passed the increased cost on to the retailer who then passes it on to the consumer. What happens with direct mail order is another matter. There should be a process already since there was already a tariff on Chinese goods. What happens when you order something from Ali Express or Temu?

@Gildafacit – 3d printed historical lines have been steadily increasing in the last few years. This may help to speed that up. I wonder is providing an stl file a good or service?

As I understand it, STLs are a service. Electronic products don't seem to be affected

@rusty musket

That *is* the optimistic outlook.

Almost everything I sell comes from Europe. I'll just raise prices accordingly.

Exactly. A tariff is always a sales tax on the consumer.
It doesn't punish the country of origin. It doesn't affect the importer. It only affects the consumer.
Does anyone remember reading about the Smoot Hawley Tariff? How did that work out.

As Ed Koch said when he lost an election, "The people have made their choice. Now that must suffer."

For the more paranoid among us, it sems that Bill's post got caught by the TMP bug. I guess we are all subject to it, and it is not something he controls or is immune to.
I was also planning on placing an order with Perry Brothers at the end of this week. I guess I'll put that on hold. I suppose I should concentrate on getting things from US dealers who sell figures from overseas, until they run out of whatever stock they have that I want.
Like Philius, I am wondering how this will work out--I couldn't find anything when I went looking earlier.
I did note that the countries I deal with the most--Britain and Australia--were "only" hit with 10% tariffs. I will have to see how other countries, like Indonesia via New Zealand, work out.

Grelber

"It doesn't punish the country of origin."

I think you're wrong, John. If a tariff means that if an export to the US is priced out of the market, that country's economy will also suffer.

No one wins in a trade war. In the US, prices will get higher, inflation will rise, there will be shortages, unemployment rises etc A spiral.

I see that Stellantis just put off 900 American car workers. And this is Day One….

I understand that the impacts of the tariffs are still unclear. But, what is fair about a country putting 25%, 100%, 200% tariff on US goods? Or subsidizing own country goods, such as steel (looking at you, China) when they sell to other countries?

It's certainly not fair trade.

My optimistic outlook is we see some short-term pain, countries negotiate and things calm down. All in all, I think international trade becomes more even among countries.

It will likely affect GW since they are a listed company and so must strictly obey the rules, but smaller, privately owned vendors shipping to the US could easily slip under the radar if they want. They just don't make enough money to attract the attention of whomever will be regulating the tariffs on the US side, especially since Trump is also firing large numbers of Federal employees. He wants to hit the big boys like auto makers. Costs for raw materials will however generally increase and so these costs will be passed on to us.

FYI, the tariffs wiped away 2.2 TRILLION dollars of value for companies across the globe in a single day, including plenty of US ones. The last time we saw something like this was when Covid hit and supply chains ground to a halt. Imposing trade barriers slows the economy which in turn reduces tax revenue far beyond anything the tariffs might take in. At the same time it also accelerates inflation.

I don't think Trumpism is on the way out. It will be with us for some time.

I've seen a lot of hand wringing and pearl clutching about Trump's Tariff War. He didn't start this war; he's simply fighting back. The U.S. has been clobbered for decades from friend and foe alike. It's time to end this.

Several countries are already talking about reducing their tariffs. Why is it okay for another country to have a tariff on American goods and the US has no tariff on their goods? Certainly Americans are not served by that.
This is mostly a negotiating tool. American manufacturing jobs by the millions have gone overseas. Several companies have already indicated investment in the US for manufacturing. China makes about 80% of the ships produced in the whole world. How is that good for competition in peacetime and good for the West in time of war?

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Good points Bunker. These new tariffs will help the U.S. to reindustrialize.

Sold a package of WOG WW1 aircraft to a guy in Portugal for $120 USD including shipping. A month later he told me it was held at customs. Two months after shipping he told me it cost him another $120 USD to get the package.

Why should the US be the only country that does not include tariffs, import fees or what ever you want to call them.

Remember this is the beginning of negotiations not the end of them.

Yeah. The that inhabits the White House also put a tariff on an island that has only penguins as a population and the BIOT, which has a population of about 3000….all US and UK service members.

The tariffs are paid for by the end user. Any company that tells you different is lying.

I work in food distribution. So long as humans eat, I will have a job. The stuff in my facility that is coming down from Canada is already increasing in per unit price. McCain's (which make Tater Tots, etc) is a Canadian company. Bonduelle, now known as NordTerr, is also a Canadian company. The provide frozen vegetables. Not that the veg are necessarily Canadian grown, but the sorting, washing, packaging and freezing is done Up North.

Good luck with this.

My hobby is about the least of my worries right now.

Eric

Those penguins have had it all their own way for far too long. They always look smug to me, in their black and white outfits. About time someone stood up to them.

"All in all, I think international trade becomes more even among countries."

The whole point of international trade is that it isn't "even". Some countries can produce some things more efficiently than others, due to availability of resources, labour or whatever. We will benefit by countries producing what they are best at and then trading. The Division of Labour, Terms of Trade etc.

Poor Adam Smith is spinning in his grave.

As the US doesn't produce tin any more, the cost of casting alloys will go up. The US sources tin from Indonesia (32% tariff) or South America (typically 10% tariffs).

Of course, one of the reasons why the US doesn't have the capability for SJG to produce games domestically, is that SJG, like almost everyone else, once upon a time shifted domestic production to China. A comparatively recent global shipping costs and supply routes crisis (fuel, blocked canal) didn't make anyone think about an alternative should something else happen to unbalance the cost benefits.

Not that domestic production with minimum wage considerations can rival exploiting somewhere with lower wage costs even with tariffs.

One of the basic problems with these pronouncements, at least as far as I interpret them, is that they appear to not actually be based on how much the tariffs that are actually applied to US exports, but are more a calculation based on the balance of trade. I think we in Australia are copping a base-line 10%, even though we are a net importer of goods from the US by a factor of at least two to one, while others have those seemingly strange percentages.

One of the main issues to my mind however is that many US companies have consciously pushed their manufacturing offshore (as we have here in Australia).

I always thought that was a mistake, but the cost of labour in Western countries appears to have wiped out our manufacturing sector. You can now see it moving through Asia, from Japan, to China, to Cambodia.

I remain unsure how these tariffs will reinvigorate US manufacturing unless it does actually suddenly reduce the cost of labour.

In addition, I am old enough to remember the quality inherent in US products compared to some of the rubbish imported from elsewhere, but how long does it take to build a manufacturing plant?

I would guess there will be many companies now scoping out a bit of land, buying it up and "commencing" construction which will allow them to dodge the tariffs in the meantime.

As a negotiation tactic, I am also concerned that many years of patient US diplomacy may have been washed away. If this pushes India (let alone some of the South East Asian nations for which the US, Australia, and many others have spilled blood over) more toward China, then I fear that this may, in retrospect, not have been a good idea.

I have however had it confirmed that the official tariff for the Heard and MacDonald Islands (which is apparently still an Australian possession and which I never knew we had) on US products, is now zero so the tariff policy is obviously starting to bite.

The penguins do apparently have something far more serious to worry about than US tariffs though in that the active volcano, which is apparently spewing hot lava and melting the snow, could one day blow up the island. Without Trump's tariffs I would never have known that.

I'm not sure how to wargame this – perhaps ships from different countries in a race to extract the most penguins?

Wargaming is an optional endeavor so if it gets too expensive people will stop or have to finally work on their pile of shame.

I just saw a nice $10 USDK printer at AdeptiCon producing amazing stuff. That and a garage and US miniature manufacturing is up and running!

More people in the U.S. might start ordering more items from companies like Old Glory. I know that I made several large orders from Piano Miniatures, AW, and Front Rank last year in anticipation of the tariffs, while holding off on my purchases from Old Glory. This year, I plan to make a few large purchases from Old Glory (so expect a few large orders later this summer). There is one thing about Donald Trump that people can agree on whether they like him or not, and that is, unlike most other politicians, he lets you know ahead of time what he plans on doing. No one should have been caught off guard by his tariff policies. If you were, then I guess you have just gotten used to politicians lying to you.

Anyone who thinks that 'truth' and 'politician' belong in the same sentence is a fool.

Politics – from the Greek 'poli' (many) and 'tic' (parasite).

Using tariffs to reindustrialize is a fool's errand. In our family we have both a car dealer and a car parts maker. The car parts maker manufactures in China. They moved to China because the savings were *enormous.* In order to get that factory to move here you have to keep the tariff in place permanently. So he'll lay off workers temporarily. The US will sell between 2 and 5 million fewer cars and he'll sell fewer parts.

Fun fact: the US' manufacturing output peaked in…2018/19 and we will likely break that record every year starting in 2026 or so.

What has changed is we no longer use people. There was a time in this country when over half the work force worked in agriculture. This obsession with the pipe dream of "good manufacturing jobs" is more nostalgia than anything. We make more with fewer people very year.

Free trade agreements meant participants had free trade with each other, no tariffs. Balance of trade was what made things appear uneven.
I disagree that the largest economy in the world was getting ripped off by everybody; how was the USA so wealthy then?
Paying customs fees or whatever is very different from tariffs. I pay no VAT on UK products and pay 10% GST in Australia, so my country gets my sales tax money. I'm sure US customers get VAT free, so what happens now? The item will now have an extra % added on it didn't used to have as well as existing fees. The Portugese customer knew he would pay fees and bought a product regardless and that is nothing to do with tariffs.
What about when we had to pay an extra 9 bucks to post a package to the USA to help cover security screening? That made postage very unattractive to send mail there but noone did it in return.
Tariffs won't hurt me a bit. I don't buy much new stuff from US companies due to postage costs and most stuff I do buy is 2nd hand and the only tax I pay is 10% GST which goes to my own country's coffers.
Tariffs are like tobacco excise; they are done to punish users/purchasers and change their behaviour. In reality the customer goes elsewhere, the supplier changes supply routes and the tariffs and excises achieve nothing except to shrink a market.
I'm betting on a recession soon. I really hope I'm wrong.

@Captain Sensible I think you are being wildly optimistic. Looking at how other policies are applied it would be a fool who tried to follow the suggestion of "smaller, privately owned vendors shipping to the US could easily slip under the radar if they want."

We are not going to industrialize the way some hope. Way too factors against it. Would still be massively expensive. Even with tariffs it will still be much cheaper to make something in a country where labor is $4 USD-5 a hour verses $40 USD-50 in the US in factories that are already build equipped and ready to go. Times have changes, this is 1950s anymore.

All this tariff and re-industrialization talk also ignores the tax code aspect. The code was deliberately changed over time—by both parties in Congress—that incentivized building new plants elsewhere rather than investing in old ones here or building new ones here. Tariffs alone cannot fix this. The fact that the Trump's team haven't talked about any of this, to me as a career business lawyer, demonstrates they really don't know what they are doing. A comprehensive tariff and tax code package, pushed through Congress and therefore made into law, MIGHT work over time to improve the situation, and certainly would have enough chance to do so that no one could call it "crazy". Instead, we have this wild, unstable tariff system and meanwhile Republicans in Congress are moving forward to cut income taxes on the rich. Congrats, America, you are trading income taxes for sales taxes.

Trump has no interest in getting things thru Congress. He wants to rule through executive orders like a king.

As per the OP, the effects on me as a hobby buyer are pretty simple. I live in Canada, which has been targeted in various ways, including its auto sector, and this despite a trade agreement broken by President Trump that President Trump himself in his first term signed ("the most beautiful trade agreement…").

I have, in consequence, ceased all US purchases, including Amazon and all US hobby suppliers, and deleted most US-based subscriptions. Same for groceries and other things. I've ceased US vacation travel too, aside from seeing close family (twice later this year).

I've directed hobby purchases, where I can, to Canada, and the UK, France, Spain, and Poland – all NATO allies who are not attacking us with fake news over a fake border crisis. If there is something I can't get elsewhere, which has not happened yet, I'll just do without it.

In hobby purchases, that probably averages out to $60 USD per month or so; but for all household expenditures, it's closer to maybe $500 USD a month for our three-person home. (For groceries alone, the expenditure redirection has been roughly $60 USD per week.)

Local stores will, of course, also have to pass along tariff-driven price increases to us, which means I will also buy less at home, and maybe from non-US sellers which also face US tariffs. But so far, European purchases of European-made material have been unimpacted.

No!

[url-https://www.oscarmayer.com/products/00044700102787-naturally-hardwood-smoked-bacon-original/] Oscar Mayer – smoked bacon

Yes|

Fmnnebrogue- Smoked Streaky Bacon

I have plenty in my lead pile till the tariffs come down. Already they said Monday was to be a "Black Monday" scaring people.
It wasn't. But I sure was able to get some good deals on stocks.

@ Grattan45 "Trump has no interest in getting things thru Congress. He wants to rule through executive orders like a king."
And he said those famous words "I've got a pen and I've got a phone and I will use it.."
Or was that someone else? Was that person acting like a king? Inquiring minds want to know..

How about a guy that wants a military parade thru the streets to celebrate his birthday? Just like Putin, Kim, Xi… At a cost of some $140 USD million. Gee, sure glad we have doge to cut out waste in government.

Or, how Trump alone could put tariffs on the entire world which sank the stock market and cost Americans $7 USD Trillion of their money just like he was a, oh I don't know, a King?? Gee, here I though the House was in charge of taxing and tariffs.

This is the response from a friend of mine who has a successful POD company in the US specializing in board games and KS after I sent him the article:

It's all about the cashflow.

If you do crowdfunding and then give most of that money to a factory in China and it takes you 6-18 months to get your money back, then any little problem in shipping, in printing, tariffs, etc can put you in a cash flow black hole.

If you do crowdfunding and then give most of the money to a printer in the US, it can take you a month to get it back. And the customer gets it in a month too.

How much faster would that same $10 USDk or $20 USDk seed money turn around for you even if printing in the US cost you more? You would still make more money if you can do 3x-4x the crowdfunding projects with the same $20 USDk in the US as it takes for 1 cycle in China or anywhere overseas.

I ordered cubes from China once. I asked for 10 bags of 1000 each color total of 10000 of each of 9 cube colors. They shipped me 10000 bags of 9 each (1 of each color in a wee baggie). I am still cutting little bags and freeing up red cubes when I run out.

We did a Kickstarter once that failed, and we still shipped a month after it was over because we could without the funding the KS would have provided. It would have had better artwork if we the KS worked, but the game still shipped and sold about 600 copies.

We have another customer that just did KS for Arabian Struggle – the KS funded but he cancelled it because he didn't think he'd get enough money to pay for the lower cost per unit, but higher minimum order size of running it in a Polish factory. Cash flow again – didn't want to tie up all his money at once with 1500+ games that may or may not sell. So I got to make the game and it's shipped 300+ copies so far even with a failed KS.

Not a big number, but 300 games x 12 customers and all of a sudden my cash flow is looking good too.

Another one from a guy in the game design and publishing business for 40+ years:

Doom-and-gloom reporting. Take a deep breath.

I am working with a US based POD company. Long-term I welcome this. I'll survive the short-term hit on my profits.

China is not a cheap option anymore. Good!

The days of relatively inexpensive board games are over. Game publishers need to be creative with how much they put into a box (fewer plastic pieces, thick paper game boards instead of mounted cardboard game maps, etc.).

Many US-based companies were spoiled by cheap Chinese (slave) labor and Chinese government subsidies for manufacturing and shipping. (cheating)

Even if tariff negotiations result in affordable Chinese manufacturing again. I prefer to never do business in China ever. Shipping will continue to increase, especially globally, regardless of tariffs.

My games, books & magazine printers are US-based. Paper costs will continue to rise as they have in the past before tariffs.

Take a breath. I remember when coffee bean prices dramatically rose in the 1970s. 50 years later I suspect that sales of coffee beans are still in high if not greater demand.

I've attended seminars put on by the presidents of the major board game publishers in the US. They discussed how they had to do business before 2000 and how it has changed.

The game designer typically gets 2% of the wholesale price of the game. Experienced and proven designers can negotiate more. The publisher will generally help out on the final product, artwork and rules but some companies want the designer to do it all. The advantage is that the designer does not have to worry about the business end of marketing, shipping, warehousing, etc. They all related to guys they knew who had good game designs and went broke trying to sell them because that are not businessman.

They were also adamant about the designer NOT being the game developer (the guy who takes the design and makes sure it can be packaged and published and not lose any money). It's a different viewpoint. The designer needs to be flexible.

In the 1970s, there was a company selling their games and losing money on each one. Very smart guys but poor businessmen.

You need retail distribution to get big sales numbers. Retailers typically want a 40-50% discount over the retail price. The publisher pays for shipping. If the games don't sell, there is normally some type of agreement on what happens. Sometimes the games end up in a landfill or the publisher pays for the shipping to get them back.

The big board game companies that have China do their printing work at a 6x markup on their cost. A game retailing for $100 USD would have a cost of about $17.00 USD. For a game that retails for $100 USD, the designer gets $1.00 USD (2% of $50.00 USD). A print run is typically 1500-2000 copies.

Big companies like GMT have a cadre of proven designers who get more than 2%, and if you are an unproven new designer, it's going to be hard to break into the production schedule and utilize their resources. However, if you are successful and make the team with a good design, you can get a new game published every 1-2 years.

Before the internet they'd design a game and get copies printed hoping they would sell. Often, they gauged the market wrong and were stuck with hundreds of games for years. Now with KS and GMT P500 they can avoid that.

A few years ago, I showed my design to the president of one of the big board game publishers. He really liked the game design, but he said it would eat too much into the sales of his current successful line of WWII and modern combined arms games, and the designer is a friend of his. No hard feelings.

I am working with a successful POD company that has the latest equipment and does great work. They are a 2 hour drive from my house. My game competes with GMTs series designed by Jim Day. Right now, it looks like my cost for a comparable quality GMT product will be about $60 USD-$65. My artwork and boards will be much better. He also helps his clients with KS too. If you do a KS and get over 2,000 copies sold, it's best to go to a US-based offset printer, which will drop the overall cost by about 25% over POD.

If I do a KS, the game will be a finished product, not vaporware that will take months or years to put out and I'll have already established a following (at least that's my plan).

I'm told I can realistically retail it for about $90. USD My background is in business development and marketing, so I have a plan to roll out the game. Something like a P500. The idea of print it, and they will come does not work. Game designers are not the best people to gauge the market.

The POD company also partners with you to help in sales and marketing. He goes to the major game conventions around the country to sell your games for a small % of the price. It's much cheaper than me doing it. I can also drive potential buyers to his website, and he'll do the credit card processing and fulfillment for a small fee.

He can anticipate the sales and prints games as needed. There's very little I have to worry about. I'm not going to get rich, but hopefully, I can turn my hobby into something to supplement my retirement income. My main investment is my retirement time, not money. I don't want to get too involved in the business aspect so it's a good fit for me.

If there is a good business model for companies to offset print board games, someone overseas or in the US will come up with a solution. Relying on a single source supplier or manufacturer is not a good long-range strategy, as the publishing companies are finding out. We'll see who survives. GAMA and other trade associations should be lobbying for an exemption for their niche industry. There are always exceptions.

Another solution might be for the big publishers with money to form a co-op and invest in their own printing equipment to split the cost and control it themselves. If so, they could control the market and pricing. Buy the printing equipment from Chinese companies after Trump puts them out of business. <grin>

Change is disruptive and painful. The tariff negotiations have just started, and it's fairly easy to make changes and renegotiate. I was employed in a niche industry that was killed by some US government and foreign policy changes, so I reinvented myself. I ended up going into a similar line of work, made more money, had a client that ended up being my wife, and 32 years later, I'm happily retired in Tennessee (refugee from California) with kids and grandchildren. I'm discussing with my broker the best buys out there, as now is the time to buy.

The whiners, name callers, and losers are going to continue to whine and will whine even louder when the market goes back up, as it always does. They are too hateful to understand the big picture. Hate and fear cloud your logic and judgment, allowing you to be controlled by someone who is using you for their benefit, not yours. Don't be a Useful Idiot.

My wife's relatives in California (proud Socialists) have swallowed the propaganda and fit the definition of a "Useful Idiot." Their ranting and name-calling are incredible. Sad because they really are nice people.

This event is unfortunate for small game shop owners and suppliers, but for decades, it has not proven to be a good long-term profitable business model. Even GW has been closing stores in the U.S. In 6-12 months after this settles down, there are going to be winners and losers. Don't be a loser. Look for opportunities out there.

Wolfhag

The majority of countries have contacted the White House expressing a desire to make a trade deal and eliminate the tariffs. All the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth will amount to nothing. Despite your personal feelings about President Trump, the man is a brilliant negotiator and he will get the best trade deals for the country. He has made it clear from the beginning that it may be bumpy at first, but in the long run, we'll be in a much better position. What we've been doing for the past forty years was unsustainable. Printing money like it was going out of style and the continuous deficit spending was taking the country down on a glide path to the ground… In other words a slow, drawn-out crash. Change always comes with some pain, but once your past the initial hurt, you feel better. Don't lose faith, trust the process and we'll all be better off.

So much drinking of kool-aid

Looking in from the outside, I really can't see how this will benefit the US.

What little manufacturing is left in the Western world now relies on inputs from the countries which have been slugged with tariffs, so even if you are a manufacturer in the US input costs have dramatically increased making products uncompetitive.

Unless of course everything is sourced domestically which, given the globalisation of trade over the past hundred years, is unlikely. Even if that were true, the companies from whom you are sourcing materials from are likely to be purchasing some components of their manufacturing from overseas.

I also feel for the US farmers, especially those growing wheat and other basic crops whose input costs will now make them uncompetitive.

To build and upscale plants to replace these inputs will take years. So my reading is that this must surely be a negotiation tactic.

Fair enough, and perhaps the world needs a decent shake up every now and again, but my fear is that the US may now be seen as unreliable and trade relationships are being solidified elsewhere.

To build and upscale plants to replace these inputs will take years. So my reading is that this must surely be a negotiation tactic.

Yes, and companies need an incentive to start. Overall, China is an unstable market in the long run, and it's already starting to crack. The quicker the West can become more self-sufficient and rely more on internal manufacturing and consumers rather than exports, the better off they'll be. At least, that's what some of the studies are showing.

The new factories will probably be built using a lot of automation and robots and less labor. Will this keep the prices of goods down and pay good wages to the human employees? Who knows.

Countries with shrinking demographics, like China and Europe (to an extent), will be at a disadvantage (newcomers on the dole will not help your internal consumer base and GDP). The US can legally attract the best and brightest from around the world and low-wage labor, which I would think gives them an advantage. We'll see.

The downside of the Chinese economy cracking is that they may start dumping US investments (759 billion dollars) and stop buying US dept that help prop up the fiat USD. How much interest is China getting and can they afford to dump US treasuries, who knows.

Farmers would be hurt if China stopped importing food. But then, can they afford not to? Tariffs could create new markets for farm exports.

Economics is not my expertise, so feel free to correct me with facts, not opinions. But name-calling, partisan, and hateful predictions are always welcome too, just try to be more creative..

There is an old saying: countries do not have friends, enemies, or allies, only interests. Ultimately, they'll do what's in their best interests.

+1 to MrMagoo. DC politicians have been kicking the can down the road for 50 years. We need someone to kick a$$ to get back to a sustainable economy. Change is always painful.

The minority leader of the US Senate said last week, "We need to get Trump's poll numbers down." So it appears their only "solution" is an all-out propaganda war against Trump and his staff, and there are millions of Useful Idiots who will gladly sit at their keyboard and participate.

Wolfhag

MrMagoo -
‘Initial hurt'? Are you serious?? This is permanent. Wake up and smell the coffee. The sh*t show going on in DC is not a good thing…and never will be. The destruction goes well beyond tariffs.

Taxachusetts. Nuff said.

The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the President of the United States have reached a deal on trade.

Isn't that nice?

Time to order that Perry Miniatures 28mm army I've been wanting.