"What's a Big Battle?" Topic

Probably several polls here, but it should at least be an interesting discussion. When you say "big battle" do you mean
(1) there were a lot of castings on the board?
(2) a historical or hypothetical battle with a lot of people is being represented? Or
(3) The table was huge.
In each case, what's the lower limit? My answers:
(1) in excess of 1,000 castings per side.
(2) multiple corps per side, and
(3) in excess of 45 Sq feet of table space. (For the metric: bigger than a regulation ping-pong table.)

And in my own mind, it probably needs two of three. Neither a thousand 6mm figures per side on a 4x6 board nor a dozen 12" tall "G.I. Joe" figures on a ping-pong table would make me think "big battle."

Small battle coming up.

I think one with 4 or more players – number of minis varies to scale; for 28mm 1000 or more figs – when I do 6mm it is more like 2000 figs – we use a 14 X 8 table (which makes reaching the middle a bit tough)

8ft is deep. How do you do it? Particularly in the middle of the table? I ask because I have a 20x6 but have been thinking of upgrading to a 20x7 and am really curios about this very issue. If someone is having to bend 75 degrees at the waste to reach figures, do you find that it regularly dishevels the units, trees, terrain etc that are closer to the edge being bent over?
Thanks,
Chris

We used to have a 7X16 foot table with a parallel 3X12 side table, and we could put two bridges across it.

Our largest game went about 6 months played at least once a week, with probably 30 players at one time or another, with about 8-12 each session.

All my painted WWII Soviet vehicles, aircraft, artillery against COL Jim with all his WWII German equipment, painted or not. We had 60 aircraft in the air suspended from the ceiling at one point. Two bridges across the river, the Russians started at the short end of the table so had 16 feet to capture. Thousands of troops, hundred of vehicles per side.

We thereafter referred to is as the Big Game.

HO scale vehicles and 1/72nd scale aircraft and troops.

Russians won, eventually. Just like the real war.

Mike

(1) 24-36 maneuver elements on the table. (ie, 24 infantry, 10 cavalry, 6 artillery) 750 casting or so.

(2) 10-15 thousand

(3) 12'-16' x 6'

4-6 players for 4 plus hours.

Table depth. Absent oddly-shaped boards and removeable sections, I tend to regard 6' as a practical max. I've played on 7' but it got awkward, and at 7' and above, there was a tendency to place young, thin players ON the board. The supply of such players in horse & musket is low these days. I too will be interested in Frederick's solution.

I think he--and Ochoin, over on Small Battles--make a valid point about scale. That's why my own thinking tends the require two of three.

But "maneuver unit" which evades number of figures has a difficulty of its own. Is a single DBA "element" a maneuver unit? Consider at the other end a 36-casting horse and musket battalion, capable of formation changes, throwing out skirmishers and taking attritional loss. I would normally say it takes a lot fewer of those to make a big battle.

Number of players is another excellent point, and more players is certainly a different atmosphere. But is it possible to fight a solo big battle?

Once again, no hard and fast rules to say what is "big". Using the last "big" game I played in as an example:

1. 3m X 1.82m table (10' X 6').

2. Five players.

3. Spectators- two horses.

4. Figures- my entire SYW collection at the time- about 2100 figures and 20 guns.

5. Playing time about 10 hours (hobby talk, gossip and BS roughly matched that).

The biggest games have been "monster" board wargames. Eg Highway to the Reich- seven players, the board had four maps and stretched about 9', each player had at least a division, with unit counters usually a battalion, but some armoured squadrons and flak/anti-tank/artillery batteries. Played for 3+ hours on Wednesday nights, when we weren't out bush, over three or four months. I doubt I'd leave figures set up for that long.

7ft x 14ft table with a couple of thousand 15mm figures, with 12 players or more.

Big battle or big game? They really aren't the same thing.

Borodino was a big battle, but I've done it on a 3x4. Operation Goodwood was also a big battle, and I did on a grid 5x7 (although it was a bit of a parking lot).

Big game, minimum of six players, probably more, larger than usual playing area and more stuff.

In fact that is your definition of a 'big battle', something at least 50% bigger than your usual game.

Table larger than my usual 6x4, more figures than my usual 150 per side.

"Big battle or big game? They really aren't the same thing"

Martin good point.

Here' what I wrote in the small battle thread.

I see small battles as using a rules set (game) that can be used to fight a battle 2-8 units per side or 20+ units per side. Johnny Reb for example from the scenario book. Front Royal 4-5 units per side, small, East of Chancellorsville 34-36 per side, big. Or Flames of War 500 points, small, 1500 points , big.

My last "big game" was fantasy, with around 1,200 figures, total, 28mm 'scale' figures (lots of Giants), with 10 players, and me ref'ing. We played on my custom table, 5.5 x 9.5, with two folding tables tacked onto the end of that, so around 15-16 feet long. The game lasted around 5-6 hours.

My last "big game" for Army Men had around 500, 54mm Army Men figures, with around 60 vehicles, and a train, coming out of a mountain, loaded with reinforcement troops and vehicles. We started out with five players, on day one, down to two players on day two, playing for around 8 hours each day. The table size was 12'(!) x 32'(!), with an opening up the middle. I ref'ed this game, as well. Plastic Wars, my rules for Army Men games, is somewhat a skirmish set of rules, with one figure representing one man; one vehicle represents one vehicle. This is the largest game ever played, by me, since I wrote it in 1998. It has become a bit of a legend amongst the two players who finished it, and myself.

Size of the table, number of figures in play, number of players enjoying the game, really doesn't matter. What matters, is whether the participants are having fun. At the conclusion of my fantasy game, I had four Newb's ask me to invite them to my next game -- they loved it! The veterans had a great time with it, as well.

In my Plastic Wars game, the two who finished it on the second day, loved it -- it was epic for them! The others were disappointed, stating that Infantry was only there to soak up casualties. Not sure how that is different from reality… My next big game will be in a city, where artillery, and tanks, will be extremely limited, and blinded, by narrow streets and multi-story buildings. Infantry will rule the game, due to the environment. Hoping the disappointed players will give it another try. There is just something magical about gaming in 54mm scale. Cheers!

Mostly #2.

The other options are really defining 'big game' rather than 'big battle' necessarily.

The Napoleonic 20 series of boardgames has shown that big battles can be played as quite an enjoyable game with 20 or less pieces (and these games convert to miniatures just fine).
link

I would have to say:
4) Mindset. If the players think it's a big battle, so it is.

Technically, every game of DBA represents a big battle with 12 elements per side on a small board. By mental habit, our group tends to think of 'big battle' DBA as 2 or more armies per side on a bigger table.

If I'm talking about a large or small battle in the context of miniatures wargaming, I might either be referring to the number of figures/models/bases being used or to the size of real-world battle being represented, depending on context. I'm not likely to be referring to the size of the table.

Probably several polls here, but it should at least be an interesting discussion.

Probably. And before a poll, this issue should be clarified:

Big battle or big game? They really aren't the same thing

A big game can probably be defined as X or more players, Y or more units, and a table Z% larger than a typical gaming table. Then we just have to discuss numbers: X > 4? or X > 8? etc.

A big battle would be a battle with a large number of units occurring on a large area. "Large" and "units" are vague because of variation over time and place.