"The fight against drones in the Russian-Ukrainian War" Topic

To combat drones, the Russian army has widely introduced smoothbore guns, and personnel are trained to shoot at drones.

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ok.ru/video/8016780462645

This brings good results:

ok.ru/video/7507321883268

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Now, several smoothbore guns are required to be in every squad of soldiers and crews of military equipment.

Pay attention to the last video – there are nets stretched over the road to protect against drones.

Now, several smoothbore guns are required to be in every squad of soldiers and crews of military equipment.

Won't that reduce combat effectiveness?

Adds yet another weapon to be maintained and supplied.

Next, they'll be issuing slings.

there are nets stretched over the road to protect against drones.

A little artillery or a good storm (especially ice or snow) will take care of those.

Is it really practical to string nets over every road in drone range of the Ukrainians?

In a few weeks, those nets are going to look pretty nasty, will be hanging down, or stolen to help transport toilets and other loot home.

Editor in Chief Bill, hmm… As far as I remember, American soldiers successfully used smoothbore guns during the First and Second World Wars. Did it bother them? Maybe…

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Networks may be a bad invention, but they are cheap and effective. That's probably why the Ukrainians happily adopted it.

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Nowadays, only completely backward victims of propaganda believe in Ukrainian fairy tales of stolen toilets and washing machines)))

In addition, the Russians are now introducing kamikaze UAV operators into the assault groups, who provide direct support to the assault group, being directly in its composition. This is both highly effective fire support for the assault, and, at the same time, direct reconnaissance of the enemy positions being attacked. This tactic has proven to be quite effective.

INNOVATING UNDER FIRE: LESSONS FROM UKRAINE'S FRONTLINE DRONE WORKSHOPS

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Armand

Aren't the nets flammable? And the Ukrainians have flamethrower drones…

Swarming Drones Will Be On The Russian-Ukrainian Battlefield In 2025

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Editor in Chief Bill The price of such networks is pennies… It is not difficult to stretch a new network. And in several months of creating such protected roads (several kilometers long), they have not yet been destroyed.
Flamethrower drones have long been in the Russians… This video shows several fragments of their use.

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And these are Russian drones – fighters.

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So sad…

Russia's Democracy: Who Killed It? (Hint: It wasn't Putin!)

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Armand

You have nothing to say on the topic of the thread? There are more than enough suitable topics for political garbage on the forum.

Yes… and you post them… regularly

What about the Russian lady speach?… maybe she is lying?

Now I understand Russian sad live and what you think and try to sell here…

Armand

I don't know if she's lying or mistaken. But her opinion is primitive and uninteresting. She lacks knowledge and facts on the topic she is trying to discuss)))

I find it interesting that a new battlefield "technology" such as drones, is dealt with by old or basic means such
as Shotguns, nets etc.
I'm surprised they haven't trained birds of prey to attack some of them.

Old stuff sometimes comes back

In WW1 people rediscovered steel helmets, hand thrown bombs, and mortars!

I think there was a scheme a few years ago to protect UK airports from drones using birds of prey trained to destroy the propellers.

Kamikaze birds of prey.

Unlike…

kamikaze UAV operators

korsun0, why not… Mobile stations of short-range electronic warfare appeared, transported on vehicles and even portable ones. But they quickly lost their effectiveness after the advent of fiber-optic drones. There are developments in the field of laser weapons, although this is not yet a mass technology.
But the problem with drones is that there are a lot of them over the battlefield. Even one individual soldier can be attacked by a dozen drones at once. You cannot feel safe either on the front line or in the rear, neither during the day nor at night, neither in a dugout nor in a building… According to some estimates, losses from drones in the troops of both sides now reach 70%. Moreover, the designs of drones differ significantly, the forms and methods of their use are constantly being improved.
That is, the task of protecting each individual soldier from this danger is more than relevant. Soldiers who do not have a smoothbore gun carry a magazine with shotgun cartridges for AK, which they make in a makeshift way.

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The effectiveness of drones can also be clearly assessed by the defeat of Ukrainian troops in the Kursk region. When the Russians approached the only remaining road through which the Ukrainian group was supplied, their fiber-optic drones simply turned this road into a graveyard of trucks and armored vehicles. Ukrainian losses during supplies became simply monstrous. I think they would have been significantly less if the Ukrainians had created a defense of nets along the road that would have caught Russian kamikaze drones.

Stoppage, I don't think birds can stop a drone swarm attack…

Now imagine that this technology will, without any doubt, be adopted by terrorists.

I accidentally came across a video. The death of a Russian soldier:

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Drone swarms did not exist a few years ago (only as a concept).

The only way to stop a swarm would be…

…A Flock Of Seagulls

"Kamikaze birds of pre"

Not at all, the birds were equipped to survive their encounters. IIRC some were given kevlar "shoes" to protect their feet. I think they were only a short term solution as Ew and other systems began to be developed (and there were of course concerns from animal welfare groups). I think the Netherlands also went down this route for a while.

On the shotguns front, nice to see that one of the suggestions we made when I was in Dstl around 20 years ago is one of a number of effective measures now in service :D

The ruskies could put those smooth bores (shotguns) in their new turtle tanks.

Well this is the new high tech on the battlefield. E.g. like aircraft and tanks in WWI. This Tech is evolving rapidly, new tactics, etc. are evolving too.

As I have said, the cycle generally seems to be : Measure – Counter Measure – Counter Counter-Measure. E.g. Aircraft then ADA … Tanks then AT weapons …

I guess the only thing they can't do is hold ground. They can interdict but can't plant a flag.

Yes, they can interdict but you need Grunts to hold ground …

I remember when Trump started to build the wall during his first term. Some said the wall is old tech, drones could handle it. Well many in Congress & the media often talk of things the know some very little about. But generally everything they do say fits their narrative and agenda. Whether it in is a valid concept or not …

Like setting up a defense. You place obstacles to slow the enemies advance, attacks, etc. And these obstacles channelize the enemy into kill zones. Where they think they can continue the attack/ the path of least resistance. Then they can be hit by weapons covering those kill zones. As they bunch up and try to keep moving, etc.

IMO that is an important reason for the wall. Channelize the illegals into places where they can be intercepted by LEOs.

Yes, they can interdict but you need Grunts to hold ground …

I remember when Trump started to build the wall during his first term. Some said the wall is old tech, drones could handle it. Well many in Congress & the media often talk of things the know some very little about. But generally everything they do say fits their narrative and agenda. Whether it in is a valid concept or not …

Like setting up a defense. You place obstacles to slow the enemies advance, attacks, etc. And these obstacles channelize the enemy into kill zones. Where they think they can continue the attack/ the path of least resistance. Then they can be hit by weapons covering those kill zones. As they bunch up and try to keep moving, etc.

IMO that is an important reason for the wall. Channelize the illegals into places where they can be intercepted by LEOs.

How do drones affect modern wargame rules? Is there a set that has tried to include the use of drones? I think it would make for either an interesting or mundane game. Interesting as players have to do counter drone warfare; mundane because nothing could move without getting swamped.

Depends on the level of command you want to portray.
For large armies, this will be a rather boring game. But the actions of assault groups (which can even consist of two people) can be exciting in skirmish mode.

Even just a clash of soldiers with drones. You can choose different tactics: a breakthrough on motocross bikes, a breakthrough on "turtles" and "barbecues", a breakthrough of a group on light transport and on foot, under the protection of portable electronic warfare and smoothbore guns. In this case, your opponent chooses the number and type of drones: a bomber drone, a kamikaze drone, a fiber optic drone, an artillery spotter drone. And neither side knows what the opponent has chosen as a result. But we need to work on the balance…

I work briefly worked a set of rules to add to a far future tactical war game. At a level of About a Company + or 2. With one vehicle or FA piece and 3-5 man Fire Tm being used.

This system works with Unit Activation[UA] with Order Counters. It is not IGOUGO … UA: one side activates one unit then the other side one unit. Goes back & forth until all units are activated and/or destroyed.

Drones would act like any CAS really came down to. You could purchase a certain number of drones, like CAS based on the Total Battle Force size. E.g. 1000, 2000, up to 6000 +. About 25% could be used to purchase Drones and/or CAS.

But with as with indirect fire/orbital assets, etc.

A unit must be activated to call-in that support i.e. as it does not have LOS to the target in the case of FA, CAS, drones and even Orbital weapons.

But the FO/Cdr, etc. does have LOS. He/they pick the target(s).

Based on the level of the Cdr/FO call-in the fires. You have a commo roll – 1D6 … Higher level of Cmd e.g. gets a successful call/the call went thru. e.g. 4+ on 1D6. A lower level +5 on 1D6. Then the fire support based on the unit's firepower stats and target is done as usual.

If unsuccessful that Cdr/FO and support assets can't be used until next turn. They have been activated for that turn.

You could by EW units[part of the 25%] that could jam the radio call/signal. So this EW unit would be activated when the OPFOR Cdr/FO activates to make the call. The EW unit e.g. would subtract -1 from the call of fire roll. E.g. +4 becomes +5. That is the EW's activation, and it can't be used again until next turn.

Not a prefect system … some may think it is bit "fiddly" … But it wouldn't be much of a game is indirect fires/off-board support hit the target all the time. That does not even happen all the time in reality anyway.

May still need some work. But I don't see it being used at any level beyond Fire Tm, Plt, Co. or Bn.

When Machines Go to War

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Armand

Another important role of drones that is rarely mentioned is supplying troops on the front lines and evacuating the wounded:

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A report from the workshops of Russian small businesses that are developing and manufacturing ground drones for Russian troops:

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In one of the Russian TV reports about the anti-drone unit, a video was shown of the use of a laser to destroy a Ukrainian drone. Interestingly, the interface of the Russian laser air defense system resembles the interface of a similar Chinese system.

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