"La 5e compagnie ?" Topic

Une question me turlupine.
Attention, ŕ priori, elle n'est pas facile…

D'aprčs mes études personnelles, un bataillon de légers bavarois possčde 4 compagnies en 1809.
- 1 d'élite Schutzen. Plumet vert.
- 3 ordinaires. Pas de plumet.

L'organisation était du męme style que les bataillons de ligne.

Or, dans mon livre :
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On trouve une 5e Compagnie.

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Elle est indiquée de façon trčs explicite. C'est l'unique fois (dans tout le livre) oů il est fait référence au niveau compagnie.

Qui sont ces braves gens ?

According to von Pivka:

In 1799

Elite company: green plumes
1st company: small white pompon badges
2nd company: green
3rd company: red
4th company: blue
5th company: yellow

Afterwards, no changes noted

Colours shown by JimDuncanUK are correct.

Note that the 5th company formed the depot.

Change occurred in 1811 with the new Karabinierkompanie having a tall red plume & the Jäger company a dark green plume.

Merci beaucoup ŕ vous deux.

Si la 5e compagnie forme le dépôt, le bataillon serait ŕ 5 (cinq) compagnies de combat????
Une d'élite et quatre ordinaires ?

According to John (Jack) H. Gill page 67 "With Eagles to Glory" in 1809 the Light Battalions consisted of five 180 man companies (including Schutzen), with the fifth being depot or reserve company.

Neither W. J. Rawkins nor George Nafziger's booklet on the Bavarian army shows this!

Have now looked at one of my German sources " Organisation, Bekleidung, Ausrüstung und Bewaffnung der Königlich Bayerischen Armee von 1806 bis zur Neuzeit" by A. Oehrlein & E. Nister & L. Braun, page 9 says that in May 1806 the 6 light battalions consisted of 4 companies (plus a depot battalion); in 1811 each battalion consisted of 1 carabinier, 1 schutzen & 6 fudlier companies (2 of which formed a Reserve-Division).

Will see if I can trackdown plume/tuft colours…

Page 14 "Organisation, Bekleidung, Ausrüstung und Bewaffnung der Königlich Bayerischen Armee von 1806 bis zur Neuzeit" says:

"Bei den Leichten Infanterie-Bataillonen trug laut Verfügung vom 23. Juni 1803 die 1. Kompagnie weisses, die 2. grunes, die 3. rotes, die 4. blaues und die 5. gelbes Kompagniezeichen. Nach Bildung einer Carabinier-Kompagnie (29. April 1811) erhielt diese ganz rote Huppen, die 1. Füsilier-Kompagnie Zeichen von roter, die 2. von grüner, die 3. und 4. Von blauer bezw. von gelber, die 5. von rot und Schwarzer, eindlich die 6. Fusilier-Kompagnie von grun und Schwarzer Farbe."

The first part says:
"In the light infantry battalions, according to the decree of 23 June 1803, the 1st company wore white, the 2nd green, the 3rd red, the 4th blue and the 5th yellow company insignia."

From "Nach" it is less clear to me so would welcome a native German speaker to clarify as it appears to say (could "bezw." be shorthand for "beziehungsweise" which means respectively):
"After the formation of a carabinier company (29 April 1811), it received all red horns, the 1st Fusilier Company insignia of red, the 2nd of green, the 3rd and 4th of blue & of yellow respectively, the 5th of red and black, only the 6th Fusilier Company of green and black colour."

bezw.= beziehungsweise = respectively

endlich [not: eindlich] = finally

Thanks DrsRob, much appreciated.

Génial !

Je profite de ce livre :

" Organisation, Bekleidung, Ausrüstung und Bewaffnung der Königlich Bayerischen Armee von 1806 bis zur Neuzeit " par A. Oehrlein & E. Nister & L. Braun

pour poser une nouvelle question.

Que dit ce livre sur l'organisation d'un régiment d'infanterie de ligne en 1809?
Pour moi, 2 bataillons.
Chaque bataillon = 4 compagnies dont une de grenadiers.

Don't forget that the various companies may be for administrative reasons as was the practice in the British army of the period.

The tactical deployment of the unit will reflect actual conditions on the battle field.

It may be that the unit commander takes direct charge of half of the battalion and the major or senior captain commands the other half.

@Bernard1809,

"Organisation, Bekleidung, Ausrüstung und Bewaffnung der Königlich Bayerischen Armee von 1806 bis zur Neuzeit" page 9 says that in May 1806 Line Infantry Regiments consisted of 2 battalions totalling 2 grenadier & 6 fusilier companies – in otherwords 1 grenadier & 3 fusilier companies per battalion.

However John (Jack) H. Gill has for 1809 – 2 battalions per regiment. Each battalion consisting of 1 grenadier & 4 fusilier companies of 180 men each. One fusilier company per battalion served as the depot. During the 1809 campaugn some of the line & light depot companies served as combined battalions (not necessarily mixed light & line) to fight in the Alps.

Page 50 "Geschichte des Königlich Bayerischen Heeres unter König Max I. Joseph von 1806 (1804) bis 1825" Volume 6 Part 1
Oskar Bezzel
Max Schick, München 1933 link confirms Gill's detail on organisation.

From a mix of "Organisation, Bekleidung, Ausrüstung und Bewaffnung der Königlich Bayerischen Armee von 1806 bis zur Neuzeit", "Geschichte des Königlich Bayerischen Heeres unter König Max I. Joseph von 1806 (1804) bis 1825" Volume 6 Part 1 & "With Eagles to Glory":

For line infantry, holding to an old tradition, each company was endowed with a title:

I. Bataillon
1st Grenadier company
1st Leib company
5th second Major's company
7th second Captain's company
3rd Lieutenant-Colonel's company

II. Bataillon
2nd Grenadier company
2nd Colonel's company
6th first Captain's company
8th third Captain's company
4th first Major's company

The Lieutenant-Colonel's and first Major's companies formed the depot. Company distinctions below:

"Schon 1801 trug die Leib- (von 1811 ab 1. Füsilier-) Kompagnie weis, die Oberst (spӓtter 2. Füsilier-) Kompagnie weiss und gelbe, die Oberstlieutenants- (3. Füsilier-) Kompagnie grüne, die 1. Und 2. Majors- (4. Und 5. Füsilier-) Kompagnie grün und gelbe, bezw. Rote, die 1., 2. Und 3. Hauptmanns-Kompagnie rot und gelbe, blaue und blaugelbe Zeichen, u. s. w. Mit dem Anwachsender Kompagnien wechselten auch die Farben. Unterm 28. Juli 1814 bekamen die Füsilier-Kompagnien des 1. Bat. einfache Farben, jene des 2. Bat. Die Gleichen, jedoch die untere Hӓlfte Weiss, beim. 3. Bat. Schwarz."

@Prince of Essling
Grands mercis pour tout.

Je reviens sur l'infanterie légčre.

Es-tu d'accord avec ma vision de l'organisation d'un bataillon infanterie légčre bavarois en 1809 ?

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Bernard

@Bernard,

I suspect based on the order of precedence for other nations that the companies of the light infantry in line would be (but I cannot access the necessary Bavarian reglement to check)- so just guess work on my part:

2nd company / 4th company / 3rd company / Schutzen

Ian