""Collapse" of Ukrainian defense in the Kursk region" Topic

During the last days Russia has made significant advances in the Kursk region. Effectively driving the Ukrainians out of the region.

Why have the Russians succeeded? Because of the current US administration.

Ukraine have long relied on trenches and fixed defensive lines and positions. These russia has been able to breach through the use of artillery and above all glide bombs. The have bombed the Ukrainian positions to smithereens and then occupied them. This is a slow and expensive way of advancing.

Ukraine have been unable to counter this as they have not been allowed to use their Patriot AD against the Russian aircrafts. The US has not allowed this to not "escalate" the conflict. When Ukraine redeployed their AD and shot down several Russian fighter bombers this was forbidden by the US

In Kursk ukraine opted for a more mobile/agile defense. Russian attacks would be met with counterattacks and a "maneuver defense". This relied on good intelligence. It has been successful since august last year.

But since the US stopped sharing intelligence with ukraine because of the "White House debacle" ukraine has been increasingly "blind" and therefore unable to counter the constant Russian attacks paving the way for Russian advances.

This is an American forum so I will be polite. I find it sad that the current US administration have actively been stabbing Ukraine in the back time and time again.

I fully understand if the US does not want to finance the war so much but actively supporting Russia by betraying Ukraine is a troubling development.

Nonsense.

The "Patriots" were withdrawn to the rear areas because the Russians began to destroy them quickly and effectively. This is an extremely expensive system and using it in this way is simply… expensive.

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The Kursk bridgehead was constantly shrinking over several months and it was just a matter of time before this group would be destroyed. Dynamics of destruction of the Ukrainian bridgehead over the last 60 days on the map:

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A couple of weeks ago, the Russians took fire control of the only road that supplied the Ukrainian group in this sparsely populated area, and they also destroyed all the bridges that the Ukrainians could use. And this was already a clear beginning of the end of this stupid adventure. The Ukrainian army was left without supplies.

"Road of Death" – that's what Ukrainian soldiers called the only road left for their supplies, which was controlled by Russian drones and artillery. Several hundred supply vehicles destroyed:
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In addition, the Russians attacked the Ukrainian fortified area in Suzhda from the rear, essentially repeating the earlier operation in Avdiivka, when a Russian battalion entered the center of the Ukrainian fortified area through a drainage pipe. This time, the Russian assault battalion attacked from a gas pipe (in which the Ukrainians themselves turned off the gas that went to Hungary). Eight hundred elite fighters attacked the fortified area from the inside and the Ukrainian garrison fled…

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Such operations are not prepared even a week in advance. Refusal to provide intelligence information a couple of days before the collapse of the Ukrainian defense could not have influenced the events in any way.

So this is another brilliant operation of the Russian troops. Trump has nothing to do with it.

The Kursk bubble has been losing ground for a while, not the fault of the current administration. Not sure what the point of going into Kursk was?

President Trump stopped sharing US intelligence and US military aid for about two or three days. Until Zelensky agreed to a cease fire.
I doubt that short stoppage had any appreciable effect on the outcome of the Kursk combat.

I suspect the idea of going into Kursk was to trade Russian land for occupied Ukrainian land and to relieve pressure on the southern front.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Bunk +1

That underground advance through the pipeline was rather clever and clearly effective.

Considering how much land the russians hold kursk didn't look like much of a trade.

Not sure what the point of going into Kursk was?

They may or may not have thought they could seize a Russian nuclear powerplant to trade for a Ukrainian one.

Editor in Chief Bill, most likely so.
Plus the Ukrainian command hoped to stop the Russian offensive by pulling troops away from the main front.

Soledad made some good points …However

I fully understand if the US does not want to finance the war so much but actively supporting Russia by betraying Ukraine is a troubling development.

I think the plan was to end the war as soon as possible. Stopping the killing. And in turn stop spending more $ on what did appear to be a WWI style stalemate. A battle of attrition, that the Russian would most likely win in the end.

The longer the war lasted. Especially with the arrival of the North Korean troops to be used as fodder and spread the dwindling forces of Ukraine even farther. They proved to be more useful than first thought. At least for more bodies to keep Ukraine fighting.

The POTUS believed once the war had stopped … then negotiate on who kept and lost terrain, etc.

Some GENs Ret., etc. think Putin was buying time until Kursk could be retaken. As it was a quite a hit for Putin to take with the Ukraine invading Russian territory. And staying there. As it could be used for a bargaining chip later. E.g. exchanging Ukraine land for Russian.

The report this morning I heard this morning said Ukraine's Forces were not surrounded. But the Russians and North Koreans had the upper hand …

Not sure what the point of going into Kursk was?

As Cuprum posted,

Ukrainian command hoped to stop the Russian offensive by pulling troops away from the main front.

Yes that is classic tactic to force the enemy to spread his forces thin. Denying him the ability to use troops for offensive ops or plug holes in their line if penetrated, etc. Similar to what Bunkmeister said also …

And as I posted, to possibly use Kursk as a trade for land the Russians occupy in Ukraine …

If the Ukrainian troops were not surrounded, then who did Trump ask to show mercy to?
According to rumors, there are a significant number of soldiers from the US and Europe among those surrounded. If they are captured, there will be a big scandal…

My French relatives told me that during WWII, one of the ways to make money was to make small pennants of different nationalities. As German, American, English, French, or other troops passed through each town, the population would enthusiastically take to the streets to wave these pennants, hoping to be respected and avoid looting.

At the time, I felt quite ashamed of my French ancestors, and over time, I forgot the anecdote.

It came back to me when I saw so many new pennants on this forum… pennants that mostly have the peace symbol and other Russian ones… there are a few Ukrainian ones left.

Where were these new champions of peace in recent years? Suddenly, with the change of leadership in the US, they proliferated like mosquitoes in a swamp… I'm sure that if their leader changes his mood at any moment and becomes displeased with the Russians, they will once again become the bad guys in the movie, and any measures taken against them will be insufficient.

Regarding the military reality in Kursk, it's no longer worth confronting us with videos that are completely contrary to what our friend Cuprum glorifies us with every day… none of them will change his way of thinking, much less those who so magnificently support peace at any price (which Ukraine must pay, of course)…

For my part, I will continue to support the countries invaded, raped, torn apart, and destroyed by any of the world's autocratic governments… a list of which we all know, but some play dumb about it.

Eternal glory to the heroic defenders of Ukraine and eternal damnation to those governed by the autocrats who support them in their macabre actions out of fear or conviction.

Armand

Those who love high-flown phrases and pompous actions usually prefer to do it from a safe distance)))
My personal observation.

Maybe so Cuprum, but that doesn't make them all wrong.

Armand..The US Prez is not going to unfriend Putin, he could have business plans there when the war ends, IMO.

Totally agree with you Tort. The same ones who say they want to save lives, need to stop spending US money and don't want a forever war (I think I remember many wars lasting longer than three years and didn't become forever wars) are the same ones who openly support the fighting to continue in Gaza, say nothing of all the money and aid we are giving Israel and don't remark on the real forever war between the Jews and Muslims in the Middle east! Just to be clear I support both Israel and Ukraine.

Seem funny the losses started after the Trump betrayal. Probably he stopped sending data to Ukraine and instead set it to his Boss Putin. Losses diminished once Ukraine found a way round. If trump had given a day or two warning lives would have been saved but hey that would not help his boss Putin. But that matters not to Trump he is happy killing his own folk cutting basic heath care so he can get a tax break.

Fortunately we have come to our senses and are not buying more F35's from Putins Lacky.

If the Ukrainian troops were not surrounded, then who did Trump ask to show mercy to?

I don't think that is completely accurate. As the POTUS wants to stop the killing as one of his primary objectives … Again report I have heard said they were in a very bad situation with the Russians and North Korean having the upper hand.

According to rumors, there are a significant number of soldiers from the US and Europe among those surrounded. If they are captured, there will be a big scandal…

Yes a rumor … as there are not that many US and Euro troops with Ukraine's forces. No scandal it is pretty well known …

But all that fits into Russian propaganda, etc.

Yes again, I don't trust many reports from Putin's Russia. But I don't trust a lot that comes out of the US media either …

UshCha, I believe someone already pointed out, the cutoff lasted about 3 days and the Ukrainians were losing ground before that.

Letting Russian special forces get behind you by going through an empty pipeline, says a lot about Ukrainian security.

During the Biden administration, You all complained we weren't giving enough and fast enough. Now someone tries to garner a peace and you complain.

It would seem to me, that those who want this war to continue, could form your own alliance with the Ukraine and then send troops in and fight the Russians. NATO would not be involved and that group and Russia could then suffer whatever consequences and we would be uninvolved. Which should, based on all the comments, make you very happy.

The Kursk bubble has been losing ground for a while, not the fault of the current administration. Not sure what the point of going into Kursk was?

It's always been a spoiling attack to raise domestic morale and force Russia to shift troops there and away from other attacks. But I don't think they ever pushed more than 15 miles into Russia with a battalion-sized force. I think they feel if they hang on long enough they can use it as leverage in negotiations. But it has no long-term staying power.

"Those who love high-flown phrases and pompous actions usually prefer to do it from a safe distance)))…"

Who are you referring to?… because if you're referring to my words, I was in a war in the first line and I drag serious wounds to prove it… what has been your heroic contribution to your beloved Russia on the battlefield?…. making false propaganda on a forum of little soldiers?

Armand

Ukraine is in dire need of soldiers now. Especially those with combat experience. Anyone who wants can try to stop the Russian barbarians with weapons in their hands.

The whole Kursk "invasion" smacked of walking into a trap to me. And now it's being sprung. Does no one read history anymore? Operation Zitadel it's not, but it's going to end the same way…

I'm with Armand on this issue.

OVI +1

Tango +1

The whole Kursk "invasion" smacked of walking into a trap to me. And now it's being sprung. Does no one read history anymore? Operation Zitadel it's not, but it's going to end the same way…

I tend to disagree. As I said … classic tactic to force the enemy to spread his forces thin. Denying him the ability to use troops for offensive ops or plug holes in their line if penetrated, etc. Similar to what Bunkmeister said also …
And as I posted, to possibly use Kursk as a trade for land the Russians occupy in Ukraine …

Of course with the war still going on. There will be more coming out when it is over … Probably in the near future.

A free Zelensky action figure for UshCha, Tortorella, and Grattan54

Legion 4, the trouble is that the Ukrainians did not achieve the desired result. They failed to capture the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant, the Russian offensive did not stop, instead, this attack on Russian territory led to the sending of additional Russian troops to the front and activated the article of the Russian-North Korean treaty on joint border defense. That is, in fact, the Ukrainians got the exact opposite result. In addition, now Russian troops, pursuing the enemy, entered and are advancing on Ukrainian territory in the Sumy region of Ukraine, where they had not attacked before…

the trouble is that the Ukrainians did not achieve the desired result.

I'll await an AAR from US and UK GENs before I go along with totally what you say. I'd think the fact that they counter-attacked and penetrated fairly deep into Russian territory had the result of pulling Russians & N/Korean from other ops.

And taking more losses trying to evict Ukraine's units from the Kursk penetration. And it took quite some time for the Russians to start to push Ukrainian Force off Russian territory. And again I have heard some US Ret. LTC-GEN say they may have also wanted to use the Kursk land grab. To be used for bargaining to trade for their land back from the Russians for Kursk.

But every historian and tactician may see things a little differently. Based on a number of considerations.

Did the Russians want to start pushing Ukraine out of kursk right away? Units tied up in a self made pocket while other fronts trudged on. Looking at the maps did they plan to trade 1-1 or think the Russians were going to give up all the land they've taken for just Kursk?

The Ukrainians attacked in a relatively sparsely populated forested area with a limited road network. This is an inconvenient area for conducting military operations, which is why the Russians considered it of little interest to the Ukrainians in terms of attack and it was not covered by large military forces. Hence the initial Ukrainian success. As a result, it was the Russians who actually tied down the Ukrainian troops in this uninteresting "pocket" and deprived the Ukrainian troops of reserves in the area of ​​the main military operations (and there is almost a solid urban agglomeration there, providing great advantages to the defender). Moreover, the best "shock" Ukrainian troops, you can understand this by the abundance of modern Western equipment they have here. The Ukrainian leadership, as I understand it, also counted on the fact that the Russians would constantly and actively try to dislodge the enemy from these territories with unprepared attacks, suffering heavy losses, for the sake of media purposes (supposedly crazy Putin will not tolerate such an insult). Instead, a decision was made to continue the main offensive while the Ukrainian reserves were tied up. The Ukrainians would have been great if, after carrying out the raid, even if they had not achieved their maximum goals, they had retreated to their territory. The Russians would have had to strengthen the group of troops to cover the border, which would have tied the hands of a significant number of Russian troops, while preserving the possibility for Ukrainian reserves to effectively maneuver.

The North Koreans were not on Russian territory until the attack on the Kursk region. All their assistance was limited to deliveries of shells and some types of weapons.

Exchanging territories is a stupid idea. The war would not have ended until these territories were liberated under any circumstances. It was simply impossible.

Russian tales from Kursk | Break The Fake

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Armand

Ugh, what primitive propaganda)))

First, you are shown a speech by Igor Korotchenko, who is not an official representative of the Russian government and talks about his personal opinion. And based on his personal opinion, some conclusions are made about the official position of Russia. Cheap fake.

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No one hides the fact that Ukrainian drones sometimes cause harm on Russian territory. But these few successes of the Ukrainians do not have any real significance. Compare with the results of Russian attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure.

Polish mercenaries exist in Ukraine and there are many of them. Only a mentally ill person or a very untalented propagandist can deny this)))

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By the way, where is there any information about the Ukrainian defeat in the Kursk region?

Tango, you don't need to listen to fake factories. You will look the same as this primitive propagandist)))

Sometimes cause harm….?

I'm boring now to see hundred of videos were Russian vehicles and soldiers blow up by drones…

Any military analist know that the drones are the real nightmare of the russian troops…

Polish mercenaries…? as dozens of other nationalities who fought for Ukraine… if you said mercenaries because they have been paid… well… all your soldiers are mercenaries too… and with much hight money in their pockets…

Defeat in Kursk was the Russian one… remember how it began… a shame for Russian troops (specially the Tik Tok soldiers of Chechenia)… the Ukranians made well their task there killing thousands of Russians and Koreans… with the new administration in USA… they retreat… a good tactical move… were are the hundred of prisioners?…

Any information given to you is a waist of time… my info go for other people here…

Armand

The Ukrainians attacked in a relatively sparsely populated forested area with a limited road network. This is an inconvenient area for conducting military operations, which is why the Russians considered it of little interest to the Ukrainians in terms of attack and it was not covered by large military forces.

Reminds me of the German Panzer Div. in France 1940 that advanced thru the Ardennes. That the French wrongly believed it was impassable for armor. Guess they didn't teach that in Russian Officer training ?

the Russians considered it of little interest to the Ukrainians in terms of attack and it was not covered by large military forces.

Again attacking thru a weakly defended area. Not into well-fortified and manned defenses. As the Germans tried at Kursk in 1943.

However, the Germans did the same in the winter of '44. When they commenced their Ardennes Offensive. Strike lightly defended US positions in that area. Guess the Germans learned from their attacks into Kursk in '43.

That one of the basic tactics of Blitzkrieg. Finding weak points in the enemy's line. Penetrate, Breakout and push forces into the hole. Exploiting the gap and attacking into the Flanks/Rear of the enemy defenses. Like they did in France '40.

Exchanging territories is a stupid idea. The war would not have ended until these territories were liberated under any circumstances. It was simply impossible.

Based on Ukrainian Forces success with inflicting high losses on the Russians since the early days of the invasion. I think they were willing to take the gamble/calculated risk of seizing and holding Kursk.

To not only force the Russians to send assets from other areas. That were being used for other ops. But commit any reserve forces that were being held for later ops.
To try to push Ukraine's Forces out of the Kursk area. Costing the Russian more heavy losses.

Plus the attack into Kursk was a blow to Putin and his GENs. A slap/smack in the face and an embarrassment. To Putin, his military and even the Russian people. Bad for the morale, etc. of the Russian war effort. But good for Ukraine …

Based on my training and experiences in the US Army, long ago. Plus many US Ret. GENs and former CIA operatives say similar to what I am saying. I'm no military genius … but much of what I posted here is generally based on good sound military concepts. Again, from Ret. GENs, Intel assets, etc.

And frankly I'll listen to those US[and UK] Ret. GENs/ADMs and Intel, etc. assets' comments over anything I hear from Russian sources. Again, I'm an Cold War Warrior, I don't trust the Russians & Chicoms reports, comments, etc.

Tango, if you are tired of watching Ukrainians blow up Russians with drones – watch similar Russian videos. There are definitely no fewer of them))) But in this case I meant attacks on rear infrastructure, which is much more important.

Drones are a nightmare for all warring parties.

Russian soldiers are defending their homeland. And it does not matter how much they are paid – any work must be paid.
Poles and other foreigners are taking part in someone else's war. If you are unable to understand the difference – I feel very sorry for you)))

In the Kursk region, 430 Ukrainian soldiers have been captured to date.

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Yes, your information is for other people. For those who are unable to verify its authenticity)))

Legion 4, I don't know who and what they taught in military school, but both sides are experiencing a shortage of manpower and there is no fighting on huge sections of the Ukrainian-Russian border. For several years, these are calm sections of the border. To understand this, it is enough to simply look at the map.

The Ukrainian "blitzkrieg" ended rather quickly. And now almost all of the occupied territory of Russia has been liberated. Now Russian troops are advancing on Ukrainian territory in this area.

The problem is that the Ukrainian forces were also tied down by this offensive. The main goal that I can judge, to stop the Russian offensive on the southern front, was not achieved. Having taken one relatively large settlement (Sudzha), the Ukrainians in return lost several larger ones on another front. Doubtful success.

No slap in the face. The Ukrainian attack on the native territory caused another wave of patriotism and increased the number of volunteers. This is easy to track by the number of volunteers who entered the service.

+1 Legion 4

Trump lies that Russians have surrounded 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers in the Kursk region:

"And the ceasefire, without going a little bit further, would have been tough. Russia has the advantage. They have encircled about 2,500 soldiers. And we want to get it over with."

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He's lying, isn't he? Or are American intelligence services lying? And if this is true, then this is the second major encirclement of Ukrainian troops, after Mariupol… Now Zelensky has to choose whether they will die or surrender. The Ukrainian Fuhrer must award someone the rank of Field Marshal)))

HistoryLegends: How Russia KNOCKED OUT Ukraine From Kursk

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I don't know who and what they taught in military school,

I know what I was taught at the Infantry school at Benning[now Moore], Combined Arms School at Leavenworth, and a dozen or so more schools and course during my 10+ years as a US Army Infantry Officer.

Maybe they teach things differently in Russia ?

To understand this, it is enough to simply look at the map.

I've been saying that for a long time … Russia has taken very little territory since the early months of the war. And paid for what they did with high losses … E.g. about 50% of their Armor/Mech Forces …

As for the other comments you posted … well .. no need to argue "He said vs. What the other guys said." …

Saw this online … pretty good little synopsis …

When Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine most international observers expected the fight to be a mostly defensive war on the part of Ukraine and that hostilities would be confined to Ukrainian soil.

They believed that attacks on Russian territory were an inconceivable possibility. But Ukraine proved its deep offensive capability as early as April of that year when the Moskva, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, mysteriously sank.

Since then, Ukraine has demonstrated a capability to reach assets deep into Russian-controlled areas, such as the attack on the Crimean Bridge in the fall of 2022 and several missile and drone strikes into Russia itself.

Now, attacks on the Russian homeland are scaling up as the war that Putin started comes more and more into his own territory. In this video, our military experts will tell you everything you need to know about the Freedom of Russia Legion and the Russian Volunteer corps, two groups of Russian dissidents who are fighting against Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

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Donald Trump's Peace Formula Is to Exchange Ukraine for Russia

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Armand

Oddly written article -- but Tango01, you haven't READ it. It says that the Russo-Ukraine War is a PROXY WAR that was initiated by the US (under Biden) with US support.

The following is the result of several key word prompts to ChatGPT which exhibits a disappointingly Establishment-Left standard set of answers about the War -- getting harder to jailbreak ChatGPT:

The Ukrainian state effectively ceased to exist in 2014 when both European and Russian interests occupied the country following the Euromaidan events. According to this view, Ukrainian voters lost control over their government, and the war unfolding on Ukrainian territory is not a direct struggle between Kyiv and Moscow but rather a conflict between European and Russian forces, using Ukraine as a battleground.

1. The U.S. as the Key Instigator and Beneficiary
The article asserts that the United States played the primary role in escalating the conflict into a full-scale war, leveraging its control over both European and Russian military capabilities to shape the outcome. It argues that while there have been tactical differences between Democratic and Republican administrations, both the Biden and Trump presidencies acted in a coordinated manner to manage the war, making the U.S. the main geopolitical beneficiary.

2. Europe's Miscalculated Strategy and Defeat
According to the article, the European Union misread the geopolitical landscape, believing it could use U.S. support to weaken Russia and gain control over its resources. However, the U.S. allegedly saw the EU as a geopolitical competitor and maneuvered to weaken it by provoking a direct confrontation with Russia, which was a critical misstep for Europe. The article outlines key phases of Europe's engagement in the war:

3. Initial Success (2014): The EU, with U.S. backing, secured control over Ukraine's territory and human resources through the Euromaidan movement.

First Tactical Defeat: Failed attempts to expand anti-Russian efforts beyond Ukraine, including unsuccessful coups in Turkey, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, left the EU without the necessary strategic leverage.

Second Tactical Success (2022): Russia's military invasion played into the EU's objectives of rallying anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine.

Second Tactical Defeat (2024): By the end of 2024, European attempts to sustain anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine faltered. The article claims that changes in Russia's military tactics drastically shifted battlefield dynamics, leading to a disproportionate casualty ratio (1:17.5 in favor of Russia). As a result, Ukrainian public sentiment allegedly turned against European war efforts.

With the election of Trump the US has turned away from the European strategy of proxy war and towards ending the war, which never had broad popular support in the US and rather became a political touchstone for "my side-ism."

AND it looks like the Europeans REALLY WANT WAR on Russia via their Ukrainian Meat Puppet, because only the Europeans could have helped Ukraine with this drone deepstrike on a Russian strategic base -- AND it shows that Zelensky also DOES NOT WANT PEACE because this kind of strike requires high level authority.

Ukraine Bombs Russian Airfield 435 Miles from Front Lines Where Russia Houses Nuclear Bombers in ‘Largest Drone Attack Ever'
Ukrainian forces backed by Western munitions and technology struck a major Russian strategic bomber airfield on Thursday with drones, 435 miles from the Ukrainian front lines.

The strike ignited a massive explosion and sent a huge blast of fire into the air at Engels-2 airbase in Russia.

Videos posted by Reuters showed a huge blast spreading out from the airfield and wrecking nearby cottages.

Russia reportedly called this the largest drone attack ever.

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I'm really thinking if Europe and Ukraine WANT WAR -- fruck 'em, let them deal with it, the US should drop ALL support for Ukraine and even reconsider NATO Membership. It's a Defense Pact, not a Suicide Pact.

SB both sides have launched drone strikes recently. I agree, right now it seems none of them seem to want peace.

As you know, I agree with you on NATO membership. I hate alliances during peacetime. (Yes I know Ukraine is fighting). But we kept it after the Warsaw Pact dissolved and the members then kept expanding it. Alliances in peacetime, give you no room for political maneuvering. With nukes, you have to have options.

SB both sides have launched drone strikes recently. I agree, right now it seems none of them seem to want peace.

Yes, but while Russia has the intrinsic capacity to conduct deep strikes, Ukraine does not. It can only do so with US or European targeting and guidance support, and while the US is still providing intel it is no longer providing targeting support. So this means Zelensky worked with the Europeans to conduct this strike, after Zelensky assured the US he was suspending such operations -- AND the attack was highly provocative, hitting a Russian strategic bomber base, part of its nuclear triad. Fools and Morons, what the hell are they thinking?!?

How you said that a country didn't want peace when it's invaded and his civilians are raped, mutilated, massacred, their children stolen and under a draconian occupation with no rights by a barbarian race?

What's happening with the Palestinians then? I don't see the same tearing of clothes to defend their rights, nor the pressure on Israel that they put on Zelensky by suspending their military support… is there a double standard?

What's the difference between the Nazi invasions of Europe in WWII and this one?… Should Churchill have been criticized for not wanting peace?… and his country hadn't even been invaded yet…

Armand

What's happening with the Palestinians then? I don't see the same tearing of clothes to defend their rights, nor the pressure on Israel that they put on Zelensky by suspending their military support… is there a double standard?

Nope. The Israelis left the Gaza completely in 2005, turned it all over to the Palestinians. They held their ONLY ever election, resulting in a split between Hamas and Fatah -- Hamas didn't like that and started a civil war in which they killed or drove off all the Fatah movement, the finale was throwing injured Fatah and other opponents off a hospital building roof. Since then Hamas' totalitarian regime has spent most of the $30 USD-$40 Billion in international aid (including from Israel) on weapons and tunnels and terror and rockets, and luxury homes for its leaders in Quatar. That much money could have given the Gazans their own modern electricity grid, independent water supplies, 5G and updated infrastructure, and a more modern port for trade. Not to be.

And what did Israel get for its Land for Peace deal? Well, to quote you "it's invaded and his civilians are raped, mutilated, massacred, their children stolen…by a barbarian race"

Hamas are literal Nazis -- they deserve no support and cynically use the suffering of its people, that IT is causing, as a propaganda weapon.

As for Ukraine, if Zelensky and the Europeans wanted peace , there would be peace. Do you think France and the EU don't act unilaterally when they want to or manipulate events to get their way? What happened to Libya -- China started buying more oil from Khadaffi and it looked like Total would lose control of the oil field contracts. So France convinced the UK and Germany to convince the US under Obama that Khadaffi needed to go. Obama supported it as part oh is Arab Spring regime toppling spree and started a literal Blood for Oil War. The resulting mass death, chaos and refugee flows didn't matter -- but TotalFinaElf has the oil field contracts!

The Europeans can do moral posturing with the best of them, but will do whatever it takes to meet their needs when they have to.

In the case of Ukraine, the article YOU posted, Europe is using Ukraine as a meat puppet proxy to wage war on Russia to reduce its power and bring Ukrainian and Russian resources under their control. But just like the optional Libya War, the optional Ukraine War has spun out of their control, their Wagner Coup and other attempts to topple Putin and collapse Russian have failed, and now they are evidently doubling down in the hopes that a miracle will happen to save them from their own folly since Trump's not going to prosecute their war for them, and it appears they are even willing to ESCALATE THE WAR to force the US to fight Russia! Amoral b@$tards, the lot of them!

So it's a race against time -- Peace before Ukrainian Collapse.

It sucks. It's not just. It's not fair, and Russia is at fault for starting the war. But reality can suck, it's not often just, and not often fair. But it is what it is.

Legion 4, before accusing Russian troops of weak combat capability, they must first demonstrate better results in combat operations of a similar scale against a similar enemy in similar conditions… I don't know of any such precedents. Do you?
I don't watch stupid propaganda videos))) It's boring. If you are a serviceman, you know that a war with an equal enemy NEVER happens with a dry score. While Europe and the United States are discussing the defeat of Ukraine, and not Russia is discussing the terms of surrender… World War I ended with the defeat of Germany, despite the fact that not a single Allied soldier set foot on its soil.

35 – yowie, Russia shot down its own drones sent to Ukrainian energy facilities immediately after Putin's conversation with Trump. But the ceasefire only applies to ENERGY facilities. The ceasefire does not apply to military and logistics facilities. Zelensky said that the Russians attacked the energy sector, but did not provide any evidence other than the power outages in some areas. Why are Russian missiles and drones needed if you can just use a switch))) He lies, as usual.

SBminisguy, they are fools and idiots… Russia now has the legal right to retaliate with nuclear weapons in Europe. Targeting weapons is direct participation in the war. However, this is not the first attack on nuclear deterrent facilities. Russia is simply ready to endure for now.
Bye…
Now let's wait for European troops to be sent to Ukraine. And, most likely, they will be attacked by the Russians immediately. At least, I hope so. No peacekeepers can belong to countries directly involved in the conflict.

Now let's wait for European troops to be sent to Ukraine.

We all know that's not going to happen. The British Army has collapsed from a high of nearly 500,000 troops in the Cold War to just about 70,000 today -- and they only have around 100 fighters. Germany is in the same shape, same with France. At the current pace of combat and casualties their entire militaries would be expended within 90 days of fighting in the fields and trenches of Ukraine.

This would be true if there were sensible politicians in power in Europe. But there are left-liberal fanatics there. Sectarians… They are capable of anything.

It seems that the truce has already ended… Last night Ukraine attacked the Sudzha gas transmission system, which pumped gas to Europe.

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vk.com/video-28670_456239908

Just to clarify something… it's true that I published the article… I don't publish articles that only agree with what I think… I publish articles whose perspectives I find interesting, even if they don't agree at all with what I hold…

So… millions of Palestinians are completely unwell… none of them have had to survive as best they could against Hamas, who aren't known for being open-minded toward any opposition…

But the Russians aren't… they aren't equally condemnable… I imagine neither, according to your criteria, are the Iranians, Cubans, Venezuelans, or Chinese…

Personally, I don't care who convinced whom, or what one or another US president said. What I'm clear about is Russia's past, present, and future attitude and initiative regarding its ridiculous Imperial ambitions… and its eternal disregard for human life (including its own)…

Finally… your position has been clear to me from the start… it can be analyzed in the historic thread "How long…"… only complaints and more complaints about the spending in Ukraine and the corruption of its government… not a single comment about the invasion or the massacres, rapes, etc., etc., etc.

Everyone has the right to their opinions… and also to reserve the right to express their opinions with those who disagree… but respecting that opinion… is another matter altogether…

Armand

So… millions of Palestinians are completely unwell… none of them have had to survive as best they could against Hamas, who aren't known for being open-minded toward any opposition…

So why not support their fall?

But the Russians aren't… they aren't equally condemnable… I imagine neither, according to your criteria, are the Iranians, Cubans, Venezuelans, or Chinese…

I've condemned Russia's actions. I think Putin's invasion was unjust and stupid. Now what? Do you think the North Koreans weren't even more brutal than the Russians have been? Their treatment of civilians and POWs was as bad as what the Imperial Japanese did during WW2.

Yet even with that knowledge, and anger, we were able to focus on stopping the killing. And it worked. The difference this back then our European allies had their OWN PEOPLE in harm's way! THEY sacrificed blood and treasure and had to justify those losses to their people. Now they don't, they are safe at home while using the Ukrainians to fight for them -- so why do they care how many Ukrainians die to attrit Russian power? They seem willing to fight to the last Ukrainian to meet their goals. And if they stop now, the leaders also have to admit they were WRONG and possibly lose their power.

Nah -- they'd literally start WW3 to avoid that!