"how the US might go after the cartels" Topic

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New Atlanticist March 5, 2025
How US military action against drug cartels in Mexico could unfold

Fairly predictable stuff but maybe a useful overview

Specifically, in the cartel context, the United States may employ a "shock and awe" strategy that is similar to the first Trump administration's rapid-strike military campaigns against ISIS. The goal of this approach would be to overwhelm the cartels' forces through raids and to eliminate high-value cartel targets, particularly sicarios and mid-level commanders coordinating logistics and enforcement operations. In such a scenario, the United States would likely provide heavy air support in order to prevent cartel counteroffensives and ensure that targeted cells cannot regroup or retaliate. This may include US forces embedding with the Mexican navy's special forces. Drone warfare may also be used to eliminate high-value cartel command centers, fentanyl production labs, and weapons depots.

Oh, my sweet summer child…

Mexico will cooperate?
And if they don't, we can invade?
😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄

Depends on how thoroughly the cartels control Mexico's government, doesn't it? We've intervened before during the Mexican revolution when Mexico's government was. shall we say. problematical. It would be at best a temporary solution. Or more likely part of a solution.

Cartels don't kill brave men who oppose them. They kill their wives, mothers, children and other loved ones. It is easy to be brave for yourself, but hard to be brave for the lives of your family.
Mexico has no death penalty and that in the US is so rare as to be worthless. Cartel members often escape from jail and have unlimited funds for unlimited lawyers.
100,000 drug overdoses per year for the last few years and 80% are Fentanyl. Nearly all Fentanyl is made in China and smuggled into the US via Mexico as finished drugs or as components to be mixed in the US.
It is asymmetrical warfare against the US. If China bombed the US and killed 80,000 people in a year what would we do?

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

doc +1

Bunk +1

John, John, John … bless your heart … ❤

Again, the Mexican Gov't is rife with those on the Cartels' books. E.g. ATF IIRC, just released a report that many of the weapons that the Cartels/Gangs, etc. are packing were sold to the Mexican Gov't. Hmmm ?

There should be very few US troops on the ground/a few Spec Ops, CIA, etc. Just use our firepower from air assets to support the Mexican Military going after the cartels. IMO the Mexican Military or LEOs can't be trusted. And probably many in the Mex. gov't

It may come down to the US says little to the Mex. Gov't and just takes out cartel locations, supply points, factories, etc. We probably already know using orbital assets, Drones, etc. where much if not all the bad guys are. Sea launched TLAMs, Drones Hellfires, etc., etc. would do a fine job putting the cartels and gangs pretty much out of business.

Another reason to lock the border down tight. Including military assets. I'd say even sow well marked minefields to keep the bad guys from trying to infiltrate. The cartels and gangs may want revenge after many of their fellow criminals are "terminated with extreme prejudice". They are finally labelled terrorists, we know how to kill terrorists.

Of course, any US strikes without the Mex. Gov't's sanctions could be considered an act of war. Plus, CD will most likely occur, e.g. the cartel bosses' families will certainly be possibly killed.

Any cartel or gang member should be held at Gitmo. This is meant to be a deterrent. However, the [Anti-]ACLU is complaining where some current illegal aliens are being held at Gitmo. Saw a report where the new SECDEF took some of the media or a tour of Gitmo. IIRC, the SECDEF was a Plt Ldr and part of the US guard forces there when he was an LT.

The holding facilities look better than some of the WWII era barracks, etc. we stayed in. When I was on Active Duty, '79-'90. Or even at times in ROTC, '75-'79 and the USAR '90-'92 …

It is prison for holding illegal alien criminals. So, they shouldn't expect Club Med or Sandals … If they don't like the food, they should leave negative comments on the card provide at the desk.

I suspect Trump would choose a military operation reluctantly, or only as a necessary part of something larger. I do not imagine anyone sane contemplates an invasion and occupation.

Go ahead. Your boy will do as he wants, bless his heart.
Launching Navy Seals to kill Mexicans, or drones, or etc do not rise to the level of invasion.
Sure. Right. 🙄
So, we invade Mexico, because that is what we do. We're USA! We can do what we want!
Guess who opppsed the Mexican American War, while in Congress? Abraham Lincoln.
Hip hip hooray for Pershing and Patton for invading Mexico! Another precedent.

"Temporary solution"
Oh, my sweet summer child.

Get off my lawn! Where is my Metamucil?

I do not imagine anyone sane contemplates an invasion and occupation.

"Sane"? Well, there's why I consider it inevitable. 🙄

+1 Bunkermeister

These guys need a full on approach that includes taking away their money and their products, weapons, homes, factories, etc. They will kill the children of anyone who opposes them. You will only get one chance – if you miss any of them they will take out the families of the Mexican officials who cooperated and no one will oppose them for a long while. Those that are not killed in the operation, if any, must be kept until death in an ultra max detention facility or there will be retribution.

I think this can be done, but its all or nothing and will take a huge coordinated effort.

I think this can be done, but its all or nothing and will take a huge coordinated effort.

What can possibly go wrong?
While Michael Corleone rejects Satan at the baptism.

Tort, yes, no doubt. Gitmo will do.

"Oh, my sweet summer child."

Interesting construction. Would your summer child happen to be named Lolita?

Lots can go wrong, I think, as with any large scale risky incursion. Those guys are well armed with all kinds of firepower they buy right next door. Should we do it or not? I don't know what might be involved in the operations.

In any event, it would make for a great miniature game!

Lots of irregular gunmen vs. highly trained and experienced professionals, questionable allies, and eye in the sky with total air superiority.

PST
"Oh, my sweet summer child."

Interesting construction. Would your summer child happen to be named Lolita?

It's from Game of Thrones. It's a reply to someone who has naive childish opinions. *
It's a corollary to "Winter is coming".

*Such as, we can go into Mexico and do whatever we darn well please. Because we are USA USA USA USA!

Or…
All with absolutely no negative consequences.

In any event, it would make for a great miniature game!

Well, yes. You buy and paint the figures, and run the game…
Sure. I'll play.

I suspect Trump would choose a military operation reluctantly, or only as a necessary part of something larger. I do not imagine anyone sane contemplates an invasion and occupation.

Agreed … again Drones, TLAMs, etc. No invasion of Mexico. Everything that needs to be done can be done with various air assets, etc.

Abraham Lincoln.
Hip hip hooray for Pershing and Patton for invading Mexico! Another precedent.

"They're all dead John." …🖖

USA USA USA USA!

I just like the way that sounds … 🚀

So, you actually think that Mexico will be okay with their citizens being slaughtered remotely, with drones? 🙄
Oh, right. They're foreigners, and have no sovereignty nor right to complain. 👍

🤔
Well…

Subject: TRUMP EFFECT: Mexico Abruptly Extradites 28 Cartel Bosses to U.S. -- Including DEA Agent's Killer

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And before I hear the tired and normal: "That's Breitbart!".

Subject: Notorious Mexican drug lord among 29 cartel members extradited to US – BBC News


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And since so many ignore links. 😉

Last paragraph of BBC

"The agreement marks a significant departure for the Mexican government, which has historically resisted extraditing its citizens if they might face capital punishment."

Okay, I read every word of the Breibart link, which was pretty straightforward and confirmed by other sources.

I was surprised to find so many bosses already in jail down there. I thought that the government there had been neither willing nor able to take them on.

Trump has been reverting to the 19th Century already. Tariffs and robber Barons. Now imperialism! So, why not invade a foreign country. It was all the rage back in the 1890s. Shoot, lets take Canada while we are at it.

So, you actually think that Mexico will be okay with their citizens being slaughtered remotely, with drones? 🙄
Oh, right. They're foreigners, and have no sovereignty nor right to complain.

Oh John … so bitter …

Mexico is being run by the cartels. The cartels have finally been designated as terrorists. I'd think the Mex gov't would be glad that the cartels and gangs will no longer be controlling their nation. Albeit it appears to be a failing nation because of the cartels' power and control overall.

The cartels supplied by China is bring drugs to the US to undermine and kill Americans. China wants to be the top gun on the planet. The are not friends to the USA …

And if US drones/TLAMs hit terrorist targets in Mexico. That should be lauded by their Gov't and many of their population. And elimination of the cartels will save American as well as Mexican lives.

When the drones, etc. go in. Exterminate the cartels/gangs "with extreme prejudice". To save American lives as the Mexican Gov't has little to no control of these narco-terrorists.

What can or will Mexico do ? Claim the USA attacked Mexico unprovoked. They never did anything to hurt Americans. Short answer – bull ! The Mexican Gov't couldn't or wouldn't control their narco-terrorists. Flooding the USA with Chinese supplied drugs …

Will the UN complain ? Like they did with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Or the horror of 7 Oct in Israel ?

Should the US fear a counter-attack by Mexico. And/or by the cartels and gangs ?

Or a coalition of Central & South American nations aligning with Mexico to attack/invade the USA ?

I can't believe anyone with any common sense not see all this ?

Americans are being killed by a failing nation's terrorists just across our border. What is there that some can't understand ?

Our nation's leadership's #1 Priority is to protect its citizens … Seems the last Admin didn't get that either …

Just watched the movie Sicario 2. US covertly tries to start a war between the cartels.

A nice declaration of war by Mexico would be a start.
Give Mexican government carte Blanche to strike back.

pzivh +1

A nice declaration of war by Mexico would be a start.
Give Mexican government carte Blanche to strike back.

I think they know they would be on the losing end if they tried strike at the US. The US would not be attacking Mexico the nation per se. But the narco-terrorists that occupy Mexico, that are a threat to the USA's population. Albeit they have a lot of control of the Mexican Gov't.

But again, I think if Mexico would declare war on the USA. They would soon realize what they already know. They could not stand up to US firepower if from nothing else but US air assets only.

Again, the US would not be attacking the Mexican nation but narco-terrorists that occupy it. That the Mexican gov't can't get rid of. Or may actually not want to …$ talks …

The US does not have to invade and occupy, nor do they want to … There is nothing to seize or hold there. Only targets to be destroyed … Just like with Iran … nothing there but targets to be serviced …

The US would not be attacking Mexico the nation per se.

Nonsense. There is no such thing as "just a little bit of rape".
A violation of sovereignty is a violation of sovereignty. There's no getting around that.
What if…
Iran sent a drone to assassinate Salman Rushdie?
North Korea sent a commando team to kidnap a defector dissident?

All this talk about using advanced technical means do not obscure the fact that they would be violating Mexican sovereignty.
And "Yeah but…" justifications are pure BS.
Tariffs are not friendly acts. Military acts, regardless of what or how you justify them are worse.
A declaration of war is a political act. You may scoff at the UN, but its effects on world politics is real. And it gives the Mexican government all kinds of justification for retaliatory measures inside Mexico.
The attitude of "We're America! We can do whatever we please!" has not helped our image in the last two months.

🤔

Are they reading "Mein Kampf" and learning from the Nazis?
Reverting back to their Aztec roots with human sacrifice?

Also if you are not familiar with the baster#zed version of the Santa Muerte cult, you should be.

Not surprised reporting of this is not from US MSM, it does not fit their anti-Trump narratives.

Subject: Horror in Jalisco: 400 pairs of shoes and clandestine ovens found in Teuchitlán


link

Subject: Shocking Discovery of a CJNG Extermination Camp in Jalisco—Not a Single Mention from Mexico's Cartel-Allied Government – Gateway Hispanic


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I have brought up some sort of joint op with Mexicans before, but it seemed to others that it was too legally complex, as I recall. But I don't see why a joint strike force, as requested by Mexico, could not be mutually agreed on, an agreement signed and executed. The cartels operate in both countries.

This operation would not be entirely conventional military. You cannot deal with these guys via missiles only. They are committing crimes against humanity, cannot be controlled by Mexico on its own, are interwoven in Mexican society. You need Mexico and the US to win.

Tort, don't disagree.

It would have to be a special task force well vetted with even lie detectors. As so many military and officials are corrupt.

Not sure why the Mexican government (barring corruption) would be adverse to drones from the US on cartels. Cleanest way with least casualties and paid informants.

I just know, I will not go back there until they get it in hand.

I don't think you can root these guys out or scare them enough with tech…you have to get every last one of them under control or they will continue their hold on their officials. Infiltration into the strike team would be a challenge as you say.

It is not feasible, even with an all-out war. Drone strikes could happen, but they are problematic. I think we need to get organized crime within our borders under control first.

Matthew 7:3-5

Well, without a willing and eager market for their products in the US, these cartels might not exist. US citizens are part of the network. They bring most of the product over the borders, help distribute, manage funds, etc. How much effort goes into getting people straight, going after dealers, etc.?
New suppliers spring up pretty fast whenever there is a vacuum. But we are no longer in an era where we might take this approach from our end. Politically, we need to be victims, with outsiders to blame.

John so what is your solution?

We were told in the past, we cannot punish the drug takers when we tried to. We were told: They are sick and need treatment. They are really the victims.

We tried punishing the dealers and as Tort says, someone always replaces them.

Mexico can't or won't stop the cartels there.

China keeps sending Fentanyl.

We have cartel members firing on our people from across the border and even entering the US and killing US citizens.

We've even had Mexican military fire from across the border.

Really the only victims are those in the US and Mexico who don't use drugs. We are the true Victims of crimes and of higher taxes, paying to police drug use, provide medical care for those involved in drugs, provide prisons and jails and everything else involved.

When you stop one drug, the losers taking them, just graduate to another. The cost and deaths do not matter to them. Only their high and their own self absorption is all that is important.

So what is the solution?

My "solution" is to cooperate with Mexico.
To be blunt, I'm surprised that Trump actually gives a damn about Fentanyl. Vance, definitely.

But unilateral measures that violate sovereignty are idiotic on the face of it.

Nonsense. There is no such thing as "just a little bit of rape".
A violation of sovereignty is a violation of sovereignty. There's no getting around that.

Nonsense John … are the cartels actually part of the Mexican Gov't? Are sanctioned, assisted supported assisted by the Mexican Gov't ?

All this talk about using advanced technical means do not obscure the fact that they would be violating Mexican sovereignty.
And "Yeah but…" justifications are pure BS.
Tariffs are not friendly acts. Military acts, regardless of what or how you justify them are worse.
A declaration of war is a political act. You may scoff at the UN, but its effects on world politics is real. And it gives the Mexican government all kinds of justification for retaliatory measures inside Mexico.
The attitude of "We're America! We can do whatever we please!" has not helped our image in the last two months.

🐮💩 … I guess I took my oath to this nation too seriously … The part about "defend against enemies foreign and domestic." Understand … you never took that oath. Few do … But it seems to me you are playing the "morale high ground card." As opposed to all the other cards some play, e.g. Race, sex, sexual preference, etc., etc.

The way I and my former and current comrades feel is Americans are being killed by foreign forces. Both the Chinese who supply the cartels and the cartels & gangs themselves. We are not talking a few but 10s of 1000s of US citizens. Mostly from the deadly drugs they are both responsible for in one way or another.

The Mexican Gov't can't or won't stop the cartels and gangs
from killing Americans. It is believed that some in the Mexican Gov't are on the take from the cartels. I do … as do others.

The cartels and gangs are terrorists … enemies that kill Americans. Which no intent to stopping.

By turning the other cheek, taking the moral high ground, etc. that only emboldens them. They are non-governmental entities. E.g. like pirates so to speak. In this case Not sanctioned by the nation's gov't that they operate from.

The UN, ICC, etc., etc. have no power to stop these international narco-terrorists. No actions by any court will do anything to end the US deaths.

So, the US may/will have to take matters into their own hands. As this has been going on way too long. And only exacerbated by the past POTUS his Admin, some members of Congress. With their open border policies. Using the excuse/cover of taking care of poor staving refugees only seeking asylum, a place to raise their families, etc.

Where in fact according to ICE, etc. 90% of those seeking asylum Do Not qualify. Not being able to get work in the country(s) they are from and come to the US for work/money does qualify … period.

As I have said before. This is kind of a version of insurgent warfare. The cartels/gangs are the insurgents. Using the rest of the illegal aliens for diversion, cover, etc. To make it easier to bring the Chinese supplied drugs to be sold in the USA. Killing thousands of Americans … Which is part of the CCP's scheme, plans, etc. While the cartels and gangs get extremely wealthy. At the cost, the price of dead Americans.

Whose lives are the responsibility of the elected Gov't and their appointees. A responsibility the last POTUS et al ignored by their open border policies. Knowing full well a lethal mix of thousands of illegal aliens, hardened criminals, terrorists, etc. were rushing across the US borders.

Many with bad intent, having no wish to become Americans, only to take the freebies supplied by the US Taxpayers' $s sanctioned/offered by the US Gov't. The last POTUS et al pushed this ridiculous agenda of the open border, catch & release, etc. Even offering enticements to them to come over the border. E.g. free food, clothing, shelter, medical, etc.

Remember about the Military's oath ? I.e. "defending against enemies foreign & domestic". We know where the foreign threats come from. But the domestic … with the last POTUS, admin, some in the Congress, wealthy woke progressives, etc. … they may certainly qualify as domestic threats.

One can paint the picture any way they like … but Americans are dying … And the last POTUS, admin etc. did very little to stop it … The millions of illegal aliens roaming throughout the USA and 10s of 1000s of US deaths. Is proof of the last POTUS, Admin, etc. skewed agenda and narrative. Much blood on their hands … much American blood. Way too much … IMO …

I have brought up some sort of joint op with Mexicans before, but it seemed to others that it was too legally complex, as I recall. But I don't see why a joint strike force, as requested by Mexico, could not be mutually agreed on, an agreement signed and executed. The cartels operate in both countries.

That would be nice if the Mexican Gov't could be trusted at all levels. Again, some wouldn't want to. As $ talks …

I think we need to get organized crime within our borders under control first.

That is part of the solution. And shutting down the borders … tight … "None Shall Pass." Is another critical part.

Allowing US LEOs at all levels to do their job. The last POTUS, Admin, some in Congress, sanctuary city officials, etc. stopped or got in the way of LEOs doing real law enforcement. We see the results …

I'm surprised that Trump actually gives a damn about Fentanyl. Vance, definitely.

For whatever the reasons … this admin is doing something about it. The last one did nothing but lie and make a bad situation worse. I.e. millions of illegal aliens allowed into the USA.

I don't think the last denizens of the WH, some in Congress, etc. gave a damn. Again look at the results …

But unilateral measures that violate sovereignty are idiotic on the face of it.

Yes, just let more Americans die because of Chinese supplied drugs, and the cartels/gangs bringing it across the border. Plus for whatever reasons the Mexican Gov't can't or won't do much to stop this …

So who should the US get to help/support them in stopping the US deaths ? The UN ? The ICC ? NATO ? PMCs ? The FFL ? God ?

OVI +1

you actually think that Mexico will be okay with their citizens being slaughtered remotely, with drones?

Do you actually think that US will be okay with their citizens being killed in the 10s of 1000s from drugs, etc. brought across the US borders ?

BTW Mexico's citizens won't be "slaughtered"[how dramatic!]. No cities, towns, etc. will be bombed like WWII, Korea and even Vietnam. Only surgical strikes on key cartel/gang targets. But yes, there will be some CD. For better or worse … Including the families of the cartel bosses and gang leaders.

So yeah, "payback is a muth'a !" … Karma's a BH !

"And if US drones/TLAMs hit terrorist targets in Mexico. That should be lauded by their Gov't and many of their population. "

It may be, but won't be expressed publicly because to do so would invite death…

‘But unilateral measures that violate sovereignty are idiotic on the face of it.‘

Looks at the long list of actions by presidents sine 1945 and wonders where John's ire was before Trump?

There's a long list of drone strikes by former presidents without any coordination with local governments but Cartels in Mexico is where you draw the line?

Did Pakistan cooperate when Bin Laden went down? Oh, that's right, they weren't even informed.

How about a certain family going home from a wedding that was drone striked in Afghanistan but it turned out the father driving worked for the US government and the intel was wrong. Nobody was held accountable by that president.

I've questioned our right to any of these extrajudicial strikes within sovereign nations from the beginning. I hope but somehow doubt your objections were against these actions as well. Only now that it is Mexico and Cartels do you have issues?

Tgerritsen +1

🤔

"U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) cast the only no vote on a bill requiring an annual report to Congress on cross-border cartel smuggling tunnels. The bill, H.R. 495, passed the House Monday on a vote of 402-1."

One can only wonder why she did this….

Looks at the long list of actions by presidents sine 1945 and wonders where John's ire was before Trump?

You are begging the question that I approved of them. 🙄
I have a long history here of contempt for our foreign adventurers that failed and cost thousands of casualties to both sides.

And what has Trump got to do with this? He hasn't violated any country's sovereignty. Yet.

If Trump successfully destroys Mexican cartels and stops the importation of Chinese fentanyl, how long do you think it will be before said drugs are made in America instead ?

Make America Great Again?
🤔

Cartels can be viewed as an outside threat to US citizens. So imho, the US can use military assets to crush the cartels.

It may be, but won't be expressed publicly because to do so would invite death…

Of course, but kill enough of the cartel & gangs they become less of a threat … Plus how many in the Mex. Gov't are on the cartels payroll ?

Tgerritsen +1

"U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI)

She is from Palestine and is one of the Squad. She is a far left woke progressive liberal. Who sides with the illegal aliens, sympathizes with islamic activists, terrorists, and is totally anti-Semitic. And I'm not so sure she really likes the USA ? Her and Omar should investigated, as I don't think they have the best interest of many of the "white infidels" in the USA. And they are not the only ones in Congress, etc., …

One can only wonder why she did this….

Read what I posted above.

You are begging the question that I approved of them.

Do you approve of the cartels/gangs using the rest of the illegal aliens for a diversion, cover, etc. To make it easier to bring the Chinese supplied drugs to be sold in the USA. Killing thousands of Americans

How many US citizens that are killed by those drugs, or raped and murdered, etc. are considered as "acceptable losses"? IMO … 0 is the only acceptable losses. I do hate the term "acceptable loses" …

Were the 13 US Service members killed at Abby Gate during the Biden A'stan withdrawal disaster acceptable losses ?

I have a long history here of contempt for our foreign adventurers that failed and cost thousands of casualties to both sides.

I don't like when the US Gov't does not think things thru and reacts too quickly, etc. Regardless, I volunteered to join the Army Infantry. I didn't like how Vietnam was handled. I served with many who were there. So I believe the US Gov't should think it thru when sending its Armed Forces off to war.

However, we took an oath … and regardless, who the POTUS is we have to follow his orders. As long as they are legal …

And what has Trump got to do with this? He hasn't violated any country's sovereignty. Yet.

I'm sure there are OPLANs for such a move. The US Military has OPLANs for a lot of situations.

If Trump successfully destroys Mexican cartels and stops the importation of Chinese fentanyl, how long do you think it will be before said drugs are made in America instead ?

some may be being made here now ? But to use that as a reason/excuse to not do anything about the drugs coming across the border is not valid IMO. The US Gov't will never stop all illegal drugs etc. kill people here. But with the cartels & gangs being attrited will go a long way to mitigate those US losses.

The first move is shutting down the border and deportation on illegal aliens in very large numbers. Which is going on now …

I'm sure there's a Walter White who can make the Very Best Fentanyl. It's just chemistry.