"What's it like to play a diceless wargame?" Topic

54 Posts

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Gamesman6	04 Jul 2025 2:01 a.m. PST
"Random" as a short hand for lack of information. You get punctures becuae you aren't aware of the things that cause your puncture. You can see them. So it's not random it's about information. If it's purely random then there is nothing you can do about it. In fame terms we also favour randomisers to cover gaps in what we can or want to model. And back to my personal drum tk beat, the issue for me with numeric dice is that it removes us from the thkngbwe are repsenting…. Instead of thinking I'll keep my eye peeled so I don't ride though something that might get me a puncture, we syaty thinking I "hope" I don't roll a "1" I think on variability, any action has a range of variable outcomes.those outcomes should may prensted in an unpredictable way, but the big factor for me is about players choices which should connect to the actuality not to numeric values.
UshCha	04 Jul 2025 6:27 a.m. PST
The real world is fundamantally NOT determanistic, that is the basis of Quantom Physics. You can't always see puncture materials, you may be distracted trying to stay alive! Hence \| cannot be determainistic with repect to the observer nor can it be predicted as the data is not available to the observer. In armour pertration the limit is often set at say 50% passing though a defined target. While it may be possible to measure in more detail on every shell it is not recorded in the field so the gunner could never correct for such informationas it is not available (EVER) to him. Hence realistically the spread is a statistical distribution, often a Normal one.
Gamesman6	04 Jul 2025 1:15 p.m. PST
Didn't say it was deterministic. Nor did I claim your ability to not have a puncture was deterministic… but its mot random either, it's about things like information, processing. So it's only your perception it's random I also made the point that even if it were "random" rolling a dice to determine whether a puncture would happen isn't as far as I'm concerned an intersting experience in game terms. The actuality is you ride your bike and sometimes get puncture, either or. Again thats not intersting. Maybe range of negative outcomes? Chain slips, brakes fail etc? More varied, more "random" more intersting? Not for me unless thag are ways to make choices to avoid or potentially increase the likelihood of something happening. As to armour pentration, that may be true, but I don't belive that the gunner is thinking that in practice. They would be looking to achive a shot that hits, by following the process to make the shot as well as possible, ideally having the best effect possible. The percentage chance is something that happens outside of the gunners experience, and for me outside the players experience. Now I'll grant in the design that should be factored, but too often rules put statistics front and centre and then focus on how they are produced, whether with or without dice, so the experience focuses more in the mechanics that produce the result in the game, rather than the choices that would be made that those mechanics are trying to replicate
Andy ONeill	25 Jul 2025 10:14 a.m. PST
Kriegsspiel and it's variants were developed by military officers and used dice. Modern army wargames I've heard of use dice. The American kriegsspiel development had a fair sized collection of experienced army officers involved. Then of course there's the chaos of combat as it's often described by veterans. I'm inclined to think there's quite a significant element of randomness involved in the experience of battle.