"9 hard truths about the Ukrainian war" Topic

dogtail – you're right, there are no supporting sources. That's a total misrepresentation.

To say that someone is playing checkers while the opponent plays chess is an insult to checkers players.
Trump is playing Candyland.

Just watched an interview with SecState Rubio, he said the Ukrainians had largely agreed with the peace path proposed by Trump and insisted on coming to DC to SIGN an agreement that would guarantee continued US support and a chance at peace. So that was the Trump expectation, but instead Zelensky chose to pull some kind of antagonistic theatrical ambush, stunt he evidently felt would allow him to manipulate Trump to get some kind of advantage. And it ended up as it was because of Zelinsky's choice.

@dogtail

You bring this up again and again. But I cannot find any sources that support what you are saying. Can you provide a link or something like that?

Here ya go.

Ex-Israel PM Naftali Bennett blames West for thwarting possibility of peace between Russia, Ukraine

Naftali Bennett said that his efforts as middleman between Russia and Ukraine was almost a success with both countries agreeing to make concessions and call for a truce. Jerusalem: Peace could have been a possibility between Russia and Ukraine shortly after the start of their conflict in February last year. However, latest reports shed light on the fact that Kyiv's Western backers blocked the negotiations between the two neighbours. The shocking statement has been made by former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, who mediated those contacts. Naftali Bennett says West blocked truce between Russia, Ukraine In an interview to Israel's Channel 12, Naftali Bennett said that his efforts as middleman between Moscow and Kyiv was almost a success with both countries agreeing to make concessions and call for a truce. However, he added that it did not happen as Western backers to Ukraine stopped it from taking place. "I think there was a legitimate decision by the West to keep striking [Russian President Vladimir] Putin… I mean the more aggressive approach," he said, adding, "Basically, yes. They blocked it," to a question if US and its allies ‘blocked' the peace process between Moscow and Kyiv.

link

This negotiation started very early in the war before it escalated to where it is. This headline is March 9, 2022.

Israel's Bennett plays peacemaker in Ukraine-Russia war
9 March 2022

Early in the morning, as Russia's isolation grew, a jet took off from Tel Aviv bound for Moscow. It happened in secret, carrying a VIP delegation. The plane touched down with a reverse thrust: a hot blast into Moscow's dawn while Russia was being frozen out by the West…

…But the meeting itself was the story. Could Israel be the unlikely broker in the worst crisis between Russia and the West since the Cold War?

link

And here's Boris Johnson, whom Naftali and others have said was instrumental in crushing the Russia-Ukraine peace deal, admits that Ukraine is a proxy war against Russia.

Boris Johnson admits Ukraine conflict is "proxy war" against Russia

Former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson admitted that the West organized a proxy war against Russia, an effort that has not only caused untold deaths and apocalyptic carnage in Ukraine but has raised fears of a nuclear conflict, especially after Moscow announced its intentions to review its nuclear policy following Kiev regime missile attacks on Russian territory.

It is recalled that as prime minister (July 2019-September 2022), Johnson encouraged the Europeans to send more weapons to Ukraine after he urged the Kiev regime to abandon negotiations with the Kremlin and continue a futile war effort. In effect, the former prime minister saw an opportunity to use Kiev as a proxy to continue London's centuries-old foreign policy tradition of hostility with Moscow.

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And Johnson in his own words:
link

Interesting analysis from Kiev about the recent friendly meeting…

YouTube link

Armand

Zelensky needed to understand who and what he was dealing with when he went to the White House. He needed to make a "deal" to secure the future and survival of his country. I think it was a mistake to not offer 50% of the 14.8 trillion estimated mineral wealth Trump wanted. If Trump had gotten that deal he would have seen the USA had a vested interest in making sure Russia lost and Ukraine recovered it's territory, aid would have continued to flow. NATO membership might have been on the table.

The other option is to let the Russians retain the mineral rich lands to the east or possibly lose the entire country over time and then the Russians get everything anyway.

I am on Ukraine's side and I understand Zelensky emotions and position. Zelensky failed to understand the new reality.

@dogtail

There wasn't a deal to be made, Israel was concerned about how Russia would react in Syria which is more important to Israel than what happens in Ukraine. The narrative of the west killing a deal was amplified by Russia and then amplified by some right winger on social media. It's not uncommon for the echo chamber to look for validation rather than exhibit critical thought.

link

In the interview, Bennett himself notes that it was not the US, France, or Germany that put an end to any peace talks. Rather, it was Russia slaughtering hundreds of civilians in a town outside the Ukrainian capital, a war crime discovered just about a month after the full-scale invasion began.

"The Bucha massacre, once that happened, I said: 'It's over,'" Bennett recalled.

+1 Kiltboy. I have said this here a dozen times. A peace deal was impossible after this mass murder crime…it was clear that the Russian intentions were not for peace. Biden is too often the knee jerk reaction from the right.

As for yesterday, the playground bullying was certainly unseemly, and that it was on tv was Trump's biggest mistake. The TASS reporter who inexplicably got into the WH and was able to report back to the Kremlin shows how much the Trump/Putin alliance is pushing this. Reported all over Russia as major foreign policy win, I presume. Belittling Zelensky is a deliberate favor to Putin, IMO.

I am sure this stuff happens in private talks all the time, then the press conference takes place after the childish rants are over. Trump should have controlled himself and the event. But he gave Putin the PR he needs to win.

This war is a gruesome tragedy, but in all the talk about cost in blood and treasure these days, there is not much mention about justice for Ukraine, a victim of a clear crime of international aggression and crimes against humanity.
That Putin ends up getting away with this is bad news for the future of his remaining neighbors.

SB this very much confirms what you have said.

Subject: The First Draft of the Ukraine War's History – The American Conservative


link

Yes there is fault on both sides. But the factions on each side refuse to admit it.

I'll take just TMP:
Our Russian sees it pretty much via the side of Russia.
Our Euro-Centric, US Liberals, Never Trumpers and RHINO Republicans (which the 2 are really the same), see it pretty much all as anti-Putin Russia.

Anything that goes against the views of either, is propaganda of the other side… to be automatically disregarded.

So with those views hardened, war will continue, many will die and be made homeless, economies will drain, China will become stronger and the chances of WW3 will be closer.

It seems Europe and the Anti Trumpers want continued war as it seems so do the hardline Russians. 🔥

I'll add, that I doubt either side ever reads the links, or anyone really watched the full conference yesterday. Just saw sound bites of their favored media. 😉

The full conference is on the web.

IMO Zelensky was going to sign the mineral pact and then went to that meeting with Democrats and Never-Trumpers, and made the mistake of listening to them. But hey, it made the two influencer groups happy as flies on 💩.

Subject: Biden lost temper with Zelenskyy during phone call over Ukraine aid


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"It's become routine since Russia invaded Ukraine: President Joe Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speak by phone whenever the U.S. announces a new package of military assistance for Kyiv.

But a phone call between the two leaders in June played out differently from previous ones, according to four people familiar with the call. Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he'd just greenlighted another $1 USD billion in U.S. military assistance for Ukraine when Zelenskyy started listing all the additional help he needed and wasn't getting. Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said. The American people were being quite generous, and his administration and the U.S. military were working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.

Administration officials said Biden and Zelenskyy's relationship has only improved since the June phone call, after which Zelenskyy made a statement praising the U.S. for its generous assistance. But the clash reflects Biden's early awareness that both congressional and public support for sending billions of dollars to Ukraine could begin to fade. That moment has arrived just as the president prepares to ask Congress to greenlight even more money for Ukraine."

Trump wanted the minerals, but would not give a security guarantee.
So, he acted just like the Mafia Dons he used to deal with in a regular basis in New York. And Atlantic City. And Vegas.
Now, he's out the minerals, and he succeeded in forcing Europe to defend Europe.
Expect Polish and German and French units fighting in Ukraine. Which considering past history will be rather … interesting.

Remember what I said on the first page. Trump is all wise, and is incapable of making a mistake. He is absolutely Perfect.

@SBminisguy

So an israeli guy flies to russia at 5th (?) of march 2022. And you want to tell me that at this moment Putin was ready for a negotiated peace? The moment a 60 mile russian column was sitting on the roads towards Kyev?

link

I call BS.

Bennett said

I think there was a legitimate decision by the West to keep striking

Interesting. Your guy said it was a legitimate decision. I actually googled the meaning of that word and its translation.
So after three years of war and the back stabbing that is going on right now, you think it was illegitimate to keep on fighting in march 2022? Really?

Really?

When Boris Johnson says it is a proxy war, what does this person mean?

proxy war, a military conflict in which one or more third parties directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict's outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents. Third parties in a proxy war do not participate in the actual fighting to any significant extent, if at all. Proxy wars enable major powers to avoid direct confrontation with each other as they compete for influence and resources. Direct means of support by third parties consist of military aid and training, economic assistance, and sometimes limited military operations with surrogate forces. Indirect means of support have included blockades, sanctions, trade embargoes, and other strategies designed to thwart a rival's ambitions.

exactly, the west tries to avoid Russia getting Ukraine under his thumb. Because Russia is a(insert insult as you wish) country.
That is a just cause.

"Trump wanted the minerals, but would not give a security guarantee"

John what kind of a security guarantee would Zelensky want? Do you know?

Would you be willing to put US troops in there to guarantee it, knowing that one mistake by either army, or someone posing as the opponent kills troops on either side and WW3 begins.

Because at one point Zelensky insinuated US troops.

To say that someone is playing checkers while the opponent plays chess is an insult to checkers players.
Trump is playing Candyland.

Well I have a hard time thinking Putin is really playing Chess. More like Checkers with Chess pieces.

Trump is not playing Candyland … but Monopoly, of course …🏠🏡🏢🏣🏤🏦🏨🏩🏪🏫🏬🏭

SBm +1
Dragon +1
OVI +1

Reality IMO, no matter how much some hate Trump, etc.

The war in Ukraine will be in over 3-4 months. Both sides will have to compromise. Stop the killing and destruction …

The US can't keep giving $, etc. to Ukraine. Just not economically feasible.

Ukraine will be rebuilt and rearmed by the US/NATO … Eventually the mineral deal will happen.

Putin will claim victory … even though they will only hold the Crimea, the Donbas, etc. As I and many others have said, Russian took huge losses for very few gains.

Currently the media, Dems, Left, etc. saying the POTUS is BFF with Putin. More of the Russia x 3 narrative. They will still compare the POTUS to Hitler, etc., etc. More of the same rhetoric …

They need to hire new writers.

@35thOVI:

John what kind of a security guarantee would Zelensky want? Do you know?

Article 5
or
Ukraine 51st state of the USA

The war in Ukraine will be in over 3-4 months. Both sides will have to compromise. Stop the killing and destruction …

Putin is no idiot. Why should he stop when he is winning?

Dogtail

1) they are not NATO, thank god.
2) 51st state? Thought they were already a province of Germany. Didn't Hitler try and grab them? Don't want to infringe on Germany.
3) You Europeans keep telling us Putin is just months from total collapse? Make up your minds.

1) they are not NATO, thank god.

You just made Angela Merkel divine.

51st state? Thought they were already a province of Germany. Didn't Hitler try and grab them? Don't want to infringe on Germany.

Stop looking at the Gulf of America in amazement and update your map of Europe, it is no longer 1942.

3)Yeah, Putin admits he is laughing less. That is why Trump tried to make him smile again by humiliating Zelensky in their office.

" Stop looking at the Gulf of America in amazement and update your map of Europe, it is no longer 1942."

Oh come on, you know the old urge of the Germanic peoples, to invade and conquer, comes back every so many years. Been happening consistently since at least the time of the Romans.

It's in the blood and genes. You can't deny the call.

Subject: YARN


link

😱

here we go again

YouTube link

Subject: "Three strikes": Inside the Trump-Vance fury with Zelensky


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I say again, IMO Trump spoke the truth to Zelensky yesterday but he should have unloaded in private instead of making a gift to Putin of the whole thing on tv. Not everybody likes getting kicked up in the teeth when you are down. This was deliberate theater for Putin, and punishment for Zelensky for not giving Trump dirt on Biden for the election. Zelensky was supposed to kneel and apologize, be thankful, kiss the ring.

Trump should not hold his breath for that Nobel Peace Prize any time soon. Play smarter. Or you might as well take your America First ball and go home.

@dogtail

Interesting. Your guy said it was a legitimate decision. I actually googled the meaning of that word and its translation.
So after three years of war and the back stabbing that is going on right now, you think it was illegitimate to keep on fighting in march 2022? Really?

He's not "some Israeli guy," he's a PRIME MINISTER. And he was working with Turkey, who hosted the peace talks.

Bennet was very vocal about his role in working with Turkey to get Ukraine and Russia to the table, and how the West killed the deal per the FIRST article I linked.

Then he received a veritable shite storm of attacks by the Establishment media, by politicians and his own "community" and then changed his statement. The first statement was truth to power, the second story he put out was surrender to power.

You want to view this in stark, tribalistic black and white terms -- "my side good 'cause Ukraine good, your side bad 'cause you question the narrative."

Trump wanted the minerals, but would not give a security guarantee.
So, he acted just like the Mafia Dons he used to deal with in a regular basis in New York. And Atlantic City. And Vegas.

You misread what happened.

Do you understand what Zelensky did? This was supposed be a signature meeting. That means that you have the big wigs commit time and presence to a meeting on the understanding there's a deal being signed -- takes a lot of coordination and commitment. It is a BIG DEAL.

This was the expectation of Trump and Vance because that's what the Ukrainians said they were coming for. And that's what was going to happen, there was like 20min of chatty talk and questions before the Zelensky meltdown that you should watch for context.

Then Zelensky breaks the deal and tries to set terms and insists Putin will pay reparations to Ukraine, and tries to get Trump to verbalize shots at Putin and insists on Trump committing to "Security guarantees" during the meeting. Watch it again – watch more than the blow up, the whole thing is like 20-30 minutes long, and Trump is being patient as Zelensky keeps flapping his jaws and setting conditions and changing the deal and trying to make his own reality…then Trump finally loses patience.

Irrevocable harm done by Zelensky. In the Corporate world if you pulled this, questioning the deal at the last second and then throwing barbs? Toast, you'll never get that trust back, may never get a chance to do that deal again -- or work with that company ever again.

I have heard a reasonable discussion suggesting The President and JD Vance were out to ambush Zelensky in order to excuse their failure to achieve peace 'in a day', now they can blame the Ukrainians instead.
Both Mr Macron and Keir Starmer corrected the POTUS during their press meetings, but when Zelensky tried he was shot down! Even being chastised for his dress (He has refused to wear a suit until the war ends, since day 1 of the war). He has often thanked the US and all the other allies for their support and help, yet the VP said he had not!

One important thing people need to remember as well is that President Zelensky is not a native English speaker, so its amazing how well he does as well as he does.

I say it again, SB, in March 2022 there was no chance of peace beside a Ukraine surrender.

May I add something to the list of 10 points in the article?

Ukraine is in Europe. So it should be a european problem first. Thanx for the help, dear former allies.

Trump is not willing to put US military into Ukraine, but is perfectly happy to put US civilians there, and expects them to deter Russia from attacking ?

I have heard a reasonable discussion suggesting The President and JD Vance were out to ambush Zelensky in order to excuse their failure to achieve peace 'in a day', now they can blame the Ukrainians instead.

That wasn't the purpose of Zelensky's visit. He had AGREED TO A DEAL, that's why he went to DC, to sign a deal. That's what Trump's team assumed he would do because that's what Ukraine's negotiators said he was going to do. A chatty press con and Q&A followed by a signature ceremony that was all set up with US and Ukrainian flags and ribbons.

Instead we got this -- Zelensky tried to change the deal. Watch the whole press conference. After 20 minutes of cordiality Zelensky tried to ambush Trump and change the deal, manipulate Trump into a personal attack on Putin, try to get Trump to commit to security issues that ZELENSKY KNEW were not part of the deal he was there to sign. Then he even got pissy and implied that Ukraine could be fine without America, that the EU would support him…though in reality Europeans are funding Putin's warmachine by buying more $$ in Russian energy than they have sent to Ukraine.

Really?

And then he jabs Trump about consequences personally and then finally Trump shuts him down.

What a stupid thing Zelensky did.

I say it again, SB, in March 2022 there was no chance of peace beside a Ukraine surrender.

Seriously, have you never heard of the Korean War? How did that end? North Korea was not then, and is not now a trustworthy nation -- it is a brutal monarchic dictatorship.

But what happened?

1. A CEASE FIRE
2. A negotiated ARMISTICE
3. The construction of a heavily defended DMZ
4. Economic development and reconstruction of South Korea

And now South Korea is one of Asia's "Four Tigers" of economic success.

Truman did it. Trump wants the same for Ukraine.

What's YOUR plan if you don't like that path?

almost everything went fine before Vance got fact-checked by Z about the possibility of diplomacy

You still don´t get my point: Russia had a set back in the beginning, but in march 2022 it was still expected to win within weeks. And ask Putin, I guess he will never admit that there was a single doubt on his side.

So why should he ask for a truce when his tank column was that close to Ukraine capital?

almost everything went fine before Vance got fact-checked by Z about the possibility of diplomacy

No, Vance was trying to help Zelensky out and keep the meeting and the DEAL on track. Remember Vance and Trump were both TOLD BY UKRAINE that Zelensky was there to sign a deal they had already agreed to. Then he pulls this crap, and starts talking about Russia this and that, anger this and anger that -- which is not appropriate to the pre-signing presser for a pre-negotiated deal.

Vance talking about diplomacy was a course correct statement, basically yes we know these things and we'll pursue diplomacy with that in mind. Zelensky was pissy, he rejected it, and then he went on to try and lecture Trump.

Stupid. One for the history books.

@dogtail

So why should he ask for a truce when his tank column was that close to Ukraine capital?

What the hell are you blathering about?!? What BETTER time for a truce when you've barely held off an invasion, and the invader will REMOVE HIS TROOPS back to the start line?

What kind of wargames do you play? Any? DO you read history, have you read about how other wars start and are stopped?

"The war in Ukraine will be in over 3-4 months. Both sides will have to compromise. Stop the killing and destruction …

The US can't keep giving $, etc. to Ukraine. Just not economically feasible."

Well you've changed your tune.

The worship of everything that Trump does or says here is mind blowing. Keep it up. His ego feeds on this. 👍

And please don't present the false dichotomy "Oh? You would rather Harris won?"

Here's the reaction of the Ukrainian Ambassador to the US who negotiated deal Zelensky was there to sign… she gets it even if folks here on TMP don't…

SB, they won't watch the full conference. Does not fit the narrative of their press or politicians. So instead they watch sound bites and the narrative given.
Globalist currently are controlling the narrative there. That may change sooner than some think, as we have seen in a few countries there. Then again not (see Romania).

I've also put out the fact that it was supposed to be nothing but the signing ceremony. Zelensky decided he was going to take the press being there to what he believed would be his advantage. Obviously it worked with most outsiders and most of the anti Trump opposition here. But… then they all had long since, made their minds up as to what they want and how they were going to handle the reporting of the results.

I will continue to say: Zelensky made the mistake of listening to the advice of Democrats and anti Trumpers, before yesterday and before the meeting. He also made the mistake of backing the wrong horse in the Presidential race.

I could say the Ukraine made the mistake of listening to globalist and their promises, when they talked him into getting rid of their missiles and alluded to NATO membership.

Beware of Globalist baring gifts. They are even more dirty than the Greeks were at Troy.

SB: Have you seen the linked map of march 2022? You are that close to winning and say I call it a day?

Putin later declared southern parts of Ukraine to Russian soil. Therefore there was no way out, cause he cannot give up "russian" soil.

SB I hope you are reading my links, I posted that as well. 😉

SB+1000
There is overwhelming evidence that several European nations (who, not surprisingly stood to profit from the Ukraine war) and the US administrative state, led overwhelmingly by one particular political party (also known now as the 4th branch of the government, because, you know, the Constitution says there is a executive, judicial, legislative and "completely independent, able to write law, enforce and punish, completely not beholden to the other three" forth branch of government, the administrative) stopped the 2022 peace attempts, as flawed as they may have been.

SB+1000 again,
There is overwhelming evidence of deep corruption in the Ukrainian state, with significant numbers of Ukrainian oligarchs living it up in Switzerland off of NATO and US monies. That's cash from US and European taxpayers, not M16 rifles and Javelin missiles.

SB+1000 again, and again,
Europe, particularly Germany, has been financing Putin's war effort by their unfathomably self destructive reliance on failed green energy policies which pushed them back into buying Russian fuels.

So please, not interested in hearing the new globalist European aristocracy (which seems to actually hate their own peoples) scream "yeah Ukraine, Godhood for Z man" while still feeding off the American trough of defense, failing to provide for their own (can UK, France or Germany deploy anything more than a combat ready brigade strength unit without wrecking their defense budgets?) and willingly financing the new Red Hordes.

The Ukrainian people did not start this war, they did not really even choose their last few governments (the KGB/FSB and the CIA probably had more to say about that than them) and don't deserve Putin Khan's depredations… but unless the UK, France and Germany intend to put soldiers in combat (because this is a European problem, again), Ukraine must seek a peaceful end, which means they will loose territory to Putin….
and lets not forget the average age of Ukraine's soldiers and the close to 2 million Ukrainian youth who fled their country rather than defend it…

Not the US' problem, not the job of our government to redistribute American tax payer money to leftist, globalist goals. When I see the Grenadier Guards, the Luft Landing Brigade and the 4th Cuirassiers smashing holes in Russian lines, then, and only then, should the US even think about listening to the bleating of the irrelevant European aristocracy's "save Democracy" BS.

Europe, particularly Germany, has been financing Putin's war effort by their unfathomably self destructive reliance on failed green energy policies which pushed them back into buying Russian fuels.

link

It is such a blatant lie you should be ashamed of yourself

Dogtail I placed the stats out already and you can see who supports Russian resources. Not just oil. Natural gas and others. Many members of NATO say one thing, while doing quite another.

…particularly Germany,…

Actually, our trade with Russia collapsed. But never let facts get in the way of some nice ting

Check out my usage links. See who the countries are. Hint: one country visited Vienna in the 1600's. Brought a lot of their countrymen with them.

Sorry Dogtail,
the facts are overwhelming. Your governments are speaking, and acting out of both sides of their mouths. Europe made special dispensations to continue the flow of Russian fuels to Western Europe for the entirety of this war. Why? Because of the failed green policies that REQUIRED the use of Russian fuels until the rest of the "free" world could redirect fuel to Europe to cover the shortfall.

Is it to the same extent as prior to the conflict? No, you are 100% correct, it is far, far less than before. From 40% to now 8-10 percent. But the near cessation of the fuel links happened when? This past January, less than 60 days ago. LESS THAN 60 DAYS AGO. Those monies went where? The Russian oligarchs and the Russian military.

The facts are plain: your money, and the money of every honest European citizen who believes in the basic rights of self-determination, was used by the craven European aristocracy to buy Russian fuels because of their failed polices, which was then used to kill Ukrainian citizens. So, who is ashamed? It is not I.

Germany's green energy policies (as well as the rest of Western Europe) has increased, not decreased, Europe's reliance on the rest of the world, to a point where European citizens are yet again beholden to globalist movements that are, at best, distinctly anti-European in their outlook.

So, no lies, pure facts. Use them as you will.

Maggot +1

Maggot +1

@dogtail:

SB: Have you seen the linked map of march 2022? You are that close to winning and say I call it a day?

That map is a snapshot that doesn't tell the story on the ground. Putins blitzkrieg died in the mud of "Rasputitsa" season -- Mud Season. As happens regularly, the end of Winter and the snow melt turns fields and sideroads into a muddy morass and you can only practically advance on prepared roads.

That's why we saw pictures like this:

HUGE columns of Russian AFVs and supply trucks stuck in massive traffic jams because the Russian axis of advance narrowed down to a handful of roads and bridges that the Ukrainians skillfully defended.

This caused the entire main Russian attack to literally bog down in the mud. Putin's blitz failed, and he wanted out before his people discovered the fiasco. He was going to spin it as a victory (like he will do with ANY deal), that the "anti-Nazi" campaign was a success -- nothing more to see here, move along!

But that's when Biden, Boris Johnson and other European leaders saw the opportunity to use the Ukrainians as meat puppets to fight a proxy war to bleed the Russians and reduce their power. They also tried to topple Putin via the failef Wagner Coup. That was their plan, topple Putin and influence the installation of a more pliable or friendly regime. It didn't occur to them they'd fail and Putin would emerge stronger than before.

he wanted out before his people discovered the fiasco. He was going to spin it as a victory (like he will do with ANY deal), that the "anti-Nazi" campaign was a success -- nothing more to see here, move along!

There is a logical mistake: Putin could not be hindered to evacuate Ukraine and calling it a victory. You said it yourself, he could spin it any way he wanted.

Gas delivery from Russia to Germany
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