"How big was the "Black Band" of the Italian Wars?" Topic

Not only how large was it numerically, but which troops types did it include (or not, if those were types that usually would be found)?

As I understand it, it was a "company" (I do understand that that means something bigger than a modern "company"), but what elements did it include?

I read somewhere that it opposed Landsknecht forces whilst in the service of France – did it ever fight against the German "Black Band"?

In 1527, "At the beginning of November Orazio Baglioni estimated that the Black Bands' effectives did not exceed two thousand soldiers, even though each month Florence was paying for 3500 men."

They consisted of 13 companies. 72% of the men were arquebusiers, 28% pikes or short weapons.

See link

Baron, this is a new topic to me, so I went to the irrefutable source Wikipedia. If you have not checked it out, it may be helpful. While I treat everything on Wikipedia as suspect, the sources may be helpful for your inquiry. The entry notes that the Italian Black Band fought with the German formation after the Italians switched their allegiance to the French following a pay dispute.

During the campaign leading up to the Battle of Bicocca, the ‘Black Bands' appeared:
On hearing of the dismissal of the papal army, Giovanni de'Medici, the cousin of the deceased pope, was preparing to join Sforza, but on the way with his troops, an outbid by the French made him change his mind. He set off from Bussetto, which he had just looted (because the town had refused to house his men), to join Lautrec. On 5 April 1522, he appeared in front of the French camp, with a troop of 200 cavalry, including 100 men-at-arms, and 3,000 infantrymen. To avoid any risk of confusion in future battles (there may still be some resentment in the ranks of his new allies), he blackened the purple stripes on his standards (officially as a sign of mourning for his cousin the Pope). This earned him the nickname ‘Giovanni dalle Bande Nere'.
I hope this helps.
Loïc

"While I treat everything on Wikipedia as suspect…"

Not enough, Red Jacket. Every source everywhere must be treated as suspect. A nice hardcover volume with footnotes, bibliography and a History PhD author is quite capable of quoting out of context or having footnoted citations which, if consulted, do not refer to the point of interest to you.

If the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, the price of accuracy is suspicion bordering on paranoia. We act on our best analysis, but nothing coming from a human being is absolute unquestionable truth.

It depends upon which black band you mean as there were two.

There was a black band of Landsknechts in the Service of France. At Pavia this group was about 5000 strong. It consisted of Pike and Arquebusiers. They did indeed fight against the Landsknechts in the service of the HRE at Pavia and were wiped out after fighting valiantly.

The other groups of troops were the troops of Giovani de Medici. I don't believe that they gained the name of black band until after Giovani's death in 1526. They also fought on the French side at Pavia. I believe that there were around 2500 of them at Pavia. The majority were arquebusiers with some light cavalry. There is a book about this unit which gives a much better breakdown of the troops.

WI446 had an article I believe.

Arfaioli's book The Black Bands of Giovanni is freely available in pdf:

PDF link