"How big was the "Black Band" of the Italian Wars?" Topic

Not only how large was it numerically, but which troops types did it include (or not, if those were types that usually would be found)?

As I understand it, it was a "company" (I do understand that that means something bigger than a modern "company"), but what elements did it include?

I read somewhere that it opposed Landsknecht forces whilst in the service of France – did it ever fight against the German "Black Band"?

In 1527, "At the beginning of November Orazio Baglioni estimated that the Black Bands' effectives did not exceed two thousand soldiers, even though each month Florence was paying for 3500 men."

They consisted of 13 companies. 72% of the men were arquebusiers, 28% pikes or short weapons.

See link

Baron, this is a new topic to me, so I went to the irrefutable source Wikipedia. If you have not checked it out, it may be helpful. While I treat everything on Wikipedia as suspect, the sources may be helpful for your inquiry. The entry notes that the Italian Black Band fought with the German formation after the Italians switched their allegiance to the French following a pay dispute.

During the campaign leading up to the Battle of Bicocca, the ‘Black Bands' appeared:
On hearing of the dismissal of the papal army, Giovanni de'Medici, the cousin of the deceased pope, was preparing to join Sforza, but on the way with his troops, an outbid by the French made him change his mind. He set off from Bussetto, which he had just looted (because the town had refused to house his men), to join Lautrec. On 5 April 1522, he appeared in front of the French camp, with a troop of 200 cavalry, including 100 men-at-arms, and 3,000 infantrymen. To avoid any risk of confusion in future battles (there may still be some resentment in the ranks of his new allies), he blackened the purple stripes on his standards (officially as a sign of mourning for his cousin the Pope). This earned him the nickname ‘Giovanni dalle Bande Nere'.
I hope this helps.
Loïc

"While I treat everything on Wikipedia as suspect…"

Not enough, Red Jacket. Every source everywhere must be treated as suspect. A nice hardcover volume with footnotes, bibliography and a History PhD author is quite capable of quoting out of context or having footnoted citations which, if consulted, do not refer to the point of interest to you.

If the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, the price of accuracy is suspicion bordering on paranoia. We act on our best analysis, but nothing coming from a human being is absolute unquestionable truth.

It depends upon which black band you mean as there were two.

There was a black band of Landsknechts in the Service of France. At Pavia this group was about 5000 strong. It consisted of Pike and Arquebusiers. They did indeed fight against the Landsknechts in the service of the HRE at Pavia and were wiped out after fighting valiantly.

The other groups of troops were the troops of Giovani de Medici. I don't believe that they gained the name of black band until after Giovani's death in 1526. They also fought on the French side at Pavia. I believe that there were around 2500 of them at Pavia. The majority were arquebusiers with some light cavalry. There is a book about this unit which gives a much better breakdown of the troops.

WI446 had an article I believe.

Arfaioli's book The Black Bands of Giovanni is freely available in pdf:

PDF link

Thanks to all who answered – some extremely useful replies!

>Arfaioli's book The Black Bands of Giovanni is freely available in pdf:

And that is a fine resource, but covers the Italian "Black Band", which had no connection but to fight near it at times.

The "Black band" as we know it is the formation at Marignano, and consists in its core from troops on loan by the duke of Geldern – who hired them near Frisia when the duke of Saxony, who originally fielded it for the Saxon feud, and the Frisians went into an armistice. As a trained unit of Landsknechts looked to become unemployed near his borders he hired them and send them to help France. Some of the soldiers left, some others hired by the duke joined them. They transferred through France to Italy just in time to arrive for the campaign. The strenght at that time was probably between 2-5000. France had a good number of other Landsknechts on hire, too.

The typical equipment would be a Fähnlein, a base unit, of around 500 with 50 arquebus and 50 on doublepay, which could also have swords or helbards besides pikes, often had armour, and mostly fought in the front rank.

The core of the black band returned to Geldern, while some remained in French service. In remembrance of their service in the center of Marignano the other formations were later also called "black band" by France, and fought prominently at Pavia, where they were destroyed. The next formation of "black band" fought in the campaign of 27-28 and died during the siege of Naples, more of sickness and underpayment then active combat. The surivors joined the Imperial landsknecht there.

I know of no other "black bands" in French service, but "black" was a typical designation for elite formations, from the black army of Corvinus to the black band in Frisia in years before 1500, probably survivors of the Landsknechts in Imperial/Burgundian service for the campaigns in the low countries. That one suffered heavily at Hemmingstedt 1499, the split bands later fought again in Frisia (on both sides – a report survives that they communicated).

The "black band", or any larger force, was usually a collection of Fähnlein, companies, with the 50/50/400 as ideal composition, but the campaign of Hemmingstedt reports them to be between 300 and 800. There were no cavalry or artillery in these units, so they usually were embedded in a larger army as shock infantry.

EDIT: The 1499 army formation was named "black guard", not "black band", though "great guard" is more common.
Both the duke of Saxon and the Venetians also created "white bands", in Saxony 1513 from locals where the "black" was for mercenaries. No idea on the composition for the Venetian white band in 1527.

And as the original question was for the strength & numbers:
The most famours Marignano formation was probably around 5000, formed around the core of the formation that fought in East Frisia in 1513 (perhaps half) by adding hired formations by Geldern and later France. In total France had some 12-18000 Landsknechts, not all on the battlefield in Marignano but used for garrisons, and on the flanks – but the center is the one that became famous because it withstood the Swiss charge.

The 50/50/400 for arquebus/doublepay/pike would be a good distribution.

BTW: It is very likely that some of the remnants of the Landsknechts Maximilian gave on loan to the French in 1512, which fought for him at Ravenna and Novarra, were also put into this group, though after the desaster at Novarra their number was too small to be the real nucleus, especially when merged with a battletested formation. These had defied Maximilians order to return and so were seen as traitors by many other formations that saw themself as imperial citizens.

I also found one source that claimed that the other ~10k of existing Landsknechts in French service were meant for an invasion of England in 1514 – to be led by a York pretender – which never materialized. I could not confirm that with other sources yet, but it would explain the discrepancy between Landknechts on the field 1515 and in service. Many contracts with single companies also were only for a couple of months, so numbers could be volatile.

Thank you, Puster – some excellent information there. I too found suggestions of a Yorkist Pretender being the "last" commander of one of these Black Bands. I'll try and dig it out if I can find it again, as it went into some detail.