"The army of marauders: where Russian soldiers’ habit" Topic

… of looting comes from

"Looting accompanies every war. However, the crimes of Russian soldiers stand out among the armed conflicts of the last decades for their impudence and greed.

Their marauding tradition can be traced back to the fact that the Russian army is a direct descendant of the Soviet army. The Soviet military was based on the idea that looting was acceptable. This tradition has become apparent repeatedly during the Soviet and Russian wars.

The Bolsheviks as a starting point of looting tradition
Before the Revolution of 1917, the Russian imperial army did not exceed the looting limits conventional for its time. However, after the seizure of power, the Bolsheviks started building a completely new army meant to spread the communist revolutionary idea across the world. At the same time, the Leninist party began an unprecedented expropriation of private and state assets under the "Loot the looters!" motto. These seized funds were used to support the regime, subsidise the "world revolution", and purchase weapons…"

More here

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Armand

"The little daughter's on the mattress,
Dead. How many have been on it
A platoon, a company perhaps?
A girl's been turned into a woman,
A woman turned into a corpse.
It's all come down to simple phrases:
Do not forget! Do not forgive!
Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. "Prussian Nights"

Tango01, this is what Russian soldiers find in liberated villages of Kursk region. Ukrainian Nazis killed civilians who hid in basements of houses:

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Banderites have their own traditions – the Poles can tell you a lot about them. Just ask.

Marauders of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Kursk region:

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They rob residential buildings and take away the stolen goods in cars.

ok.ru/video/7959000910383
Shops after being robbed by Ukrainian soldiers.

ok.ru/video/7899904674518
Ukrainian looters have fun in a grocery store.

Nine pound round

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This war is so terrible, perhaps Putin should withdraw all his troops from occupied territories and fortify his border of August 24, 1991 where he will be safe from Ukrainian deprivations.

Mike Creek

Bunkermeister, any war is terrible.

I think it will hardly save those Russians who live in the eastern regions of Ukraine from the murders and violence that Ukrainian Nazis committed against them during the eight years preceding this war. With the direct connivance of the West.
The best solution is the destruction of the nationalist regime.

Pretty liberal use of the N word. I don't think that words means what you think it means.

A Nazi is someone who hates people of a different nationality.
A racist is someone who hates people of a different race.
Could there be any other interpretations?

Paid To Die In Ukraine

"Russian soldiers in Ukraine are largely higher paid long-term contract soldiers. These men tend to come from rural areas where jobs are scarce and poverty is increasing. Many of the military-age men had already served one or two years as conscripts. In the last year, military recruiters have been offering these veterans well-paid jobs as contract soldiers if they sign up for a few more years. Most of their pay is sent directly to their families and there are substantial death or disability payments.

So far over half a million Russian soldiers have died or been permanently disabled in Ukraine .In many rural towns it is obvious that many men recently died in Ukraine. That's made it difficult for recruiters, who have obtained most of their best recruits from these rural areas, where many men are accustomed to hunting or fishing. That means recruits who already know how to shoot and move quietly in the countryside and are in need of a better paying job. As more local men die in Ukraine, fewer are inclined to join the army. This is a problem because most of the rural population of Russia has been slowly declining. In 1970 rural areas held half the population but currently it is only 37 percent and continuing to decline. A century ago, most Russians lived in rural areas but the movement to urban areas has been relentless and continuous.

Men in urban areas have more access to news, better education and more jobs. Urban men are not interested in joining the army, even as better paid contract soldiers. When the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, it was voters from urban areas that led the opposition to conscription, but so far, the best they could do was get the term of conscript service reduced to one year. Current conscript laws prohibit conscripts from serving in foreign wars. The government tried to present the Ukraine War as an internal Russian matter because Ukraine was part of Russia. The government passed laws to that effect but most Russians still considered the Ukraine War a foreign war that was off limits for conscripts. The conscripts went to war anyway, but almost entirely in non-combat roles…"

Main page

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Armand

With the war in Ukraine now three years old, Russia is running out of soldiers. To deal with this problem Russia increased the maximum age of involuntarily called-up soldiers to fifty. Russia sill offers thousands of dollars to men who will join but the heavy casualties have left few younger men to tempt with the cash bonuses offered to those who will join. By 2024 Russia allows men as old as 70 to enlist and receive the cash payments. Many of these men were grandfathers and admitted they did it to provide for their orphaned grandchildren. The fathers had died in the war and many grandfathers lacked the income to help the widows take care of the grandchildren. Three years of war in Ukraine have brought tragedies like this to the Russian people. The government still hasn't got enough soldiers and it would be humiliating to hire more North Korea mercenaries to fill the manpower gap.

Officers believe that the older soldiers provide stability to the younger troops. Some of the older men fought in Afghanistan during the 1980s and have combat experience to pass on. While not as physically capable as the young men, the old soldiers calmed the younger soldiers with assurances that they would all get through the next battle. A growing number of older soldiers don't make it through the next battle. They may be wiser but are not quick enough to get out of the way of enemy fire or explosions from artillery or mortar shells.

Meanwhile, back in Russia military age men continue to leave the country rather than risk being mobilized into the army. There are a growing number of rumors that the government will use another forced mobilization of soldiers to fight. These men will still get the cash bonuses but many will not live to send the money. Their widows or parents will get the money as a bitter inheritance for their loss…"

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Armand

The secret of Putin's meat grinder Dissent is deadly in a totalitarian country

"Vladimir Putin promised a lightning war — but almost three years after his invasion of Ukraine, Russia's military is bleeding. The number of casualties, alone, is shocking. Even Trump has remarked on the consequences of Putin "grinding it out". Since February 2022, Moscow has suffered some 700,000 casualties, including around 100,000 dead. There are amputees, invalids and paralytics, to say nothing of the psychologically damaged, wandering the streets of Samara or Kazan.

And yet, amid all this butchery, Putin's war machine has a steady stream of volunteer fighters — though recently these numbers had to be augmented with the help of North Korea. These "meat-grinding tactics" are rooted in a deadly combination of historical precedent, cultivated society attitudes, and ruthless economic calculus — and they present a significant challenge to Ukraine and potentially Europe.

For much of its pre-revolutionary history, what we now know as Russia was ruled by foreigners who would treat their population as slaves. Vikings, Mongols, and even the Europeanised Romanovs — all behaved as conquerors or absolutist despots. Whatever the dynasty, governance was predatory. Alien rulers had no obligations to their subjects and often acted as their worst abusers. In the polity of Kievan Rus' established by Vikings, one of the primary commodities were Slavic slaves, often sold to the Arab Caliphate. During the Mongol era, meanwhile, the warrant to rule was typically granted to the Rus' princes who extracted the highest tribute from their people. In Imperial Russia, roughly 40% of the country's male population were serfs well into the 19th century. Peasants were bought and sold by owners, with families left behind. And a particular branch of serfdom was military service: those conscripted were considered as good as dead…"

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Armand

God, what nonsense)))

Volunteers and contract soldiers are fighting in Russia.
And in Ukraine, they catch men like animals on the streets and send them to the trenches without training. This is simply the murder of their own people. Now they are sending technical personnel of the aviation and air defense specialists to the infantry… The agony of the regime.
Ukrainian brigades trained in France and Germany simply ran away…

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And in Russia: About 450,000 people have signed a contract for military service in 2024. In addition, more than 40,000 citizens have joined volunteer formations and gone to the special military operation zone," Deputy Chairman of the Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said at a meeting of the interdepartmental commission of the Security Council on staffing the Russian Armed Forces with contract soldiers.

Every day – 1,000 people volunteer…

For sure they do it for the motherland… it has nothing to do with the fortune they get paid…

Nobody believes the Russian lies… you only have to see the videos of the new "volunteers" who can barely walk or are handcuffed or sent to the front wounded or beaten to death just for being wounded or sick…

Barbarians who have not evolved at all… are not worthy of the slightest respect… have a well-earned reputation…

Armand

Oh… And do soldiers in the West sign contracts for free? You really surprised me)))

Show me at least a video of someone being sent to fight in Russia by force. Unless, of course, they are deserters who violated the terms of the contract. I can easily show you fifty videos of Ukrainian citizens being caught and sent to slaughter… I wonder why not just offer them money? OR offer money to Russians who serve exclusively for their sake.
Although what am I talking about… In Ukraine, the money doesn't reach the soldiers… It goes to buy expensive real estate for Ukrainian officials)))

As for reputation… Well, why do we care what reputation we have among cannibals? No… People like you can think anything. It's just not interesting)))

If you don't care what we think, why do you come here?

And the term "cannibal" is pretty rich, coming as it does from a citizen of a country whose own recent history includes self-created famines that led to people eating one another.

As for what "Nazis" are, your use of the term is ridiculous and ahistorical. Nazis were members of the German National Socialist Workers' Party, which hadn't existed since 1945. And I would expect a Russian to know them, since it was the Soviet government that signed the treaty with a Nazi administration that perpetrated the Second World War.

I come to talk about hobbies. And also to convey facts that you either don't know or don't want to know about my country.

Regarding artificial famine – nonsense. No one has ever proven this with documents. But the opposite has long been proven. For example, by the fact that famine at the same time was also in Poland. To be convinced of this, it is enough to simply read Western newspapers of that time… But then a very convenient lie will be refuted)))

Nazism is an ideology that exists perfectly well today. And you know this very well. But you are lying again. And Hitler's Germany is just a country that made this ideology the main and only one. It's like radical Islam – the ISIS Caliphate is gone, but… it could reappear. Maybe in a different place and with different characters. But still with the same ideology.

I think the treaty that started World War II was signed by Western governments in Munich in 1938. Czechoslovakia was the first country that the "democracies" of the West gave over to be torn to pieces by the Nazis. And which they also prevented its ally – the USSR – from saving.

Since Putin says that Ukraine is part of Russia and the same race, how could they be Nazis against their own nationality and race by your childish definition of Nazism ? Sorry that Russia is losing its war of aggression. .

mildbill, well, it's the Russians who think that Ukrainians (like Belarusians) are one people with us. Ukrainian nationalists don't think so. So your question has some kind of twisted logic…
Yes, Russia is losing its liberation war. But only in your imagination)))

I saw a long thread and came to see if Cuprum was talking about black being white and justifying the bloody aggression of his terrorist state. I was not disappointed. :-)

During the ongoing Kursk offensive, Nazi soldiers entered local houses, raped and killed women and children, and threw the bodies into the basement. Then they robbed and looted everything they could find. Until one of them said to the others: "We have to leave, the Ukrainians will get here soon."

Cumprum2, oyu very clearly did not come to this board to talk about hobbies, since your entire conversation is political.

Cuprum2,

When enough people tell you you are drunk.
Maybe it it time to lay down.

And I would expect a Russian to know them, since it was the Soviet government that signed the treaty with a Nazi administration that perpetrated the Second World War.

You mean like Finland did with Germany? And Hungary? And Bulgaria? And Rumania? And Italy? Like Spain sending 'volunteers' to fight in Russia?
Like Poland did when they took a bit of Czechoslovakia when Germany occupied the country??

Let him who is without sin……………….

I don't care what any of those countries did – they bear the responsibility for their decisions. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact set the conditions for the joint invasion of Poland, its division, and the occcupation of the Baltic States by the Soviets. It's a matter of obvious historical record.

As for the assertion that "Naziism is an ideology that exists today," that's a flatly ridiculous statement- Naziism was first last and always the party of Hitler, and that party and its program- frequently declared explicitly as "Adolf Hitler" – died with him. The attempt to pin the label on others is simply an attempt to demonize them.

oldjarhead, I didn't create this thread…

mkenny, everyone has sins, but the problem is that stones are thrown at my people much more often than others…

Nine pound round

I don't care what any of those countries did

So you are just concerned about slandering Russians and are fine with everyone else that supported and helped Hitler.

The attempt to pin the (Nazi) label on others is simply an attempt to demonize them.

If it walks like a duck……

Do you waddle when you walk?

Here is a good selection of frames from the video of Ukrainian Nazis. But here the frames are mixed together, starting from 2014. Pay attention to the emblems. Enjoy:

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No. The question of what other countries did or did not do has no relevance to the question of whether the Russian and German governments concluded an agreement to divide Poland- which they indisputably did.

The West entered into an agreement with Germany on the division of Czechoslovakia. And Poland took direct part in this. For this reason, by the way, the USSR terminated the non-aggression pact with Poland.

So what? That doesn't make the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact better; it makes the behavior of the others worse. And it doesn't change what happened.

The question of what other countries did or did not do has no relevance to the question of whether the Russian and German governments concluded an agreement to divide Poland- which they indisputably did.

So the fact the Polish, Hungarian and German governments concluded a 1938 agreement to divide Czechoslovakia between them (which they indisputably did) has 'no relevance'? That is an absurd claim. They were all at it.

I can understand the behavior of each side at that moment. There were reasons for everything.. But stop demonizing others, looking for your own benefit in the present time.
And the war that is going on in Ukraine now has a lot of objective reasons and there are many to blame for it. But no one wants to take responsibility.

It has no relevance to the question of whether the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a deal to divide Poland, which started the Second Workd War. It doesn't make the Pact "better" if other countries behaved that way; it just means they were guilty of the same behavior.

I am only holding what is contemptible up for contempt, Cuprum.

I do the same)))

It has no relevance to the question of whether the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a deal to divide Poland, which started the Second Workd War.

Germany started WW2 and only the delusional would try and claim otherwise. Perhaps you believe blaming Hitler is 'simply an attempt to demonize him' ?

At the end of that war the Soviets compensated the Poles greatly by giving them a huge chunk of Germany. I see no modern Pole who would like to give all that back.

Poland was invaded by both the German and Red armies in 1939- and that chunk of land that Poland received from Germany was "compensation" for the land the Soviets retained- and the population that was transferred. I don't care much for that deal, either.

In some militaries/cultures old habits are hard to break … In some cases, war crimes are SOP …

In many others, most really, it is not sanctioned nor allowed. It is an anomaly … rare, very rare … The vast majority of troops in these forces do their duty without committing war crimes.

Poland was invaded by both the German and Red armies in 1939-

Czechoslovakia was invaded by the German and Polish Armies in 1938.
Seems to me if you sup with the Devil you need a really long spoon.

Legion4… You shouldn't raise the topic of nations historically prone to war crimes. You won't like it… Western military personnel definitely commit no fewer such crimes than, say, the Russian army. They just try their best to hush them up.

I don't need anything- as I've said before, the cases you're citing don't exonerate the Russians and the Germans of the charge of starting the Second World War by colluding to invade Poland.

It's funny))) The Russians tried for many years to create an anti-Hitler military alliance. But the only one who accepted was Czechoslovakia. And the West immediately destroyed this ally. And Poland was a participant in this destruction and an ally of Hitler. At that moment it looked exactly like that.

Yes, it is funny – how quickly they threw all that over and sided with him.

As far as war crimes go, the main difference between the Allies and Germany (and Japan) was that an Allied soldier guilty of a war crime risked being prosecuted, even hanged. A German soldier involved in the massacre of Jews or a retaliation against French civilians would likely be praised, promoted and given a medal. Orders for war crimes came from the top.

So in the invasion of Ukraine, with the massacre of civilians, the deliberate recruitment of the dregs of Russian prisons, of Chechens, the praise, promotions and medals of officers involved in looting lorryloads of fridges and tractors, ask yourself which WW2 side the Russian army most resembles ?

The Russian army in Ukraine most resembles the Soviet army in Germany.
But is more polite. The raped and murdered children, men and women are not left on the roads as usual but throwed into basements or mass graves. Nazis were angels in comparison.

It is interesting how the current 'western' narrative of the Russians is identical to the way Goebbels paiNted them in WW2.
Walks like a duck……………

You want to say that Goebbels not always lied like Putin?

I thought a direct comparison to Goebbels might cause some to pause and reflect. My mistake. I did not realise it would embolden.

Tango is to be thanked for starting this topic and I am surprised, but grateful, that the editors have not suppressed it as too political.

I think the discussion has been measured and respectful and it is credit to our system that Cuprum2 (who is a great contributor to this forum) is able to express his views, whatever we might think.

War breeds atrocities and they did not start with the USSR. The did not start with the Mesopotamians! The Ukrainians are not all angels and have long been known to include extreme right wing factions.

But no country should even consider taking over another sovereign state just to protect its national security. The USA would never threaten that…..surely not?

Yes, it is your mistake. You shouldn't use Goebbels to justify Russian war crimes.

Legion4… You shouldn't raise the topic of nations historically prone to war crimes. You won't like it… Western military personnel definitely commit no fewer such crimes than, say, the Russian army. They just try their best to hush them up.

There are many things some say here, I don't/won't like … But thank you, however, I have a pretty good working knowledge of military history …

As far as war crimes go, the main difference between the Allies and Germany (and Japan) was that an Allied soldier guilty of a war crime risked being prosecuted, even hanged. A German soldier involved in the massacre of Jews or a retaliation against French civilians would likely be praised, promoted and given a medal. Orders for war crimes came from the top.

So in the invasion of Ukraine, with the massacre of civilians, the deliberate recruitment of the dregs of Russian prisons, of Chechens, the praise, promotions and medals of officers involved in looting lorryloads of fridges and tractors, ask yourself which WW2 side the Russian army most resembles ?

Agree totally …

The USA would never threaten that…..surely not?

That has to come with some context … E.g. keeping the Panama Canal open effects not just the Americas, but much of the world. And again, the US does not have to invade to keep the Canal out of the total control of the PRC/CCP …

And again, the US has no need to invade Greenland. As I have said. The US has had bases there since WWII. And only about 25 years ago those were closed down. And again the US reopening bases there to protect and defend the Americas, can be done without firing a shot. The US leadership is already talking to Greenland about this sort of thing. Their president has no problem with the US reopening bases there. If the interview/reports are correct. And working with Greenland to mine, etc. natural resources. Greenland will make $ as will the USA. Maybe even Denmark …

And it keeps the PRC/CCP, and Russia from getting any footholds, etc. there. Of course, neither at this point are capable of really doing anything like that. But that is today … what about 10-15+ years from now …

Never say never … never underestimate your enemy … And yes one can paint the picture however one wants. But both China & Russia are and should be considered at least unfriendly or just plain enemies.

Mutual coexistence is possible … if all sides want that to happen.

Old sayings I'm not sure from where(?) –

Know your enemies … but do business with them anyway.

War is good for business …

War is bad for business …

But no matter how bad it gets … someone makes a profit.

The much touted (Western) 'Rules Based order'.
a)'We' make the rules and 'You' have to obey them
b) None of the rules apply to 'us'.