"Not a wet market?" Topic

The problem with Covid, in my opinion, was that any alternative opinions were massively suppressed, regardless of the competence of the person expressing them. The opinions of many well-known virologists were not only ignored, but also subjected to severe ostracism.
No one counted the losses of people from the fact that other diseases were left without appropriate treatment due to the lack of doctors and medical personnel, the difficulty of seeking timely examination. Due to the inflated hysteria, many elderly and impressionable people received enormous prolonged stress, and on its basis – a surge in deaths from heart attacks, neuroses and other mental disorders …
I was waiting for a study on how many human victims were brought by the selected methods of FIGHTING COVID. But apparently there will be none … At least – not now.

Regarding the terrorist attacks in the US, I offer my condolences to the US citizens and, of course, to the victims, their families and relatives.
Alas, I assumed that the victory of the "disguised" terrorists in Syria would lead to an increase in the activity of ISIS and other terrorist Islamist groups… They saw the opportunity to win and seize entire countries.

Cuprum2 +1

@Tortarella

The political narrative here is just too difficult to reconcile.

It's not. Covid is the first *politicized pandemic* in human history. As Rahm Emanuelle famously said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste," and boy did the Democrats and authoritarian Left pounce on this good crisis and put it to good use!

*In a "normal" crisis all ideas are on the table to fix the problem. Not with Covid. They used the power of the State-Establishment Media complex to crush dissenting treatment paths, suppress opinions and information to enforce a single State-controlled narrative regardless of new information or facts. This included that the Wuhan virus was *not* man-caused (which we now know to be true) and came from a Chinese wet market from bats being sold for meat -- which we now know is totally false.

*The extreme lockdowns which we now know from testimony and documents (*not opinion*) were unnecessary and harmful in many ways, were NOT based on science and were ruthlessly enforced in the most massive social control episode the World has faced outside of outright despotism.

In my local experience an elderly neighbor committed suicide in my local park. His wife was admitted to hospital with Covid symptoms, and he NEVER SAW HER ALIVE AGAIN. She was put on ventilator treatment, which was a death sentence. He was not allowed to visit her in hospital. When she died the county authorities treated her body like biowaste and she was sealed in a casket, he was not allowed to view her. Because of Covid lockdowns and fear, his family could not travel to be with him -- no funeral, no family support for his grief, CHURCHES shut down. He walked to my local park, sat under their favorite tree and killed himself.

BUT, here in California if he'd decided to go to a "Summer of Love" to "mostly peacefully protest" by burning down a convenience store with a group of BLM/Antifa "protester" he would have been OK to go without a mask…

I could go on and on -- and ONE PARTY did this, ONE PARTY fighting to topple Trump went over the top on fear, division, violence and control. I mean, did you see the video that came out from Gov Tim Walz's Minnesota lockdown enforcement when riot-gear equipped police march down the street in a residential neighborhood and shoot people sitting on their own porches with pepper paintballs to force them inside? Or when Gov Whitmer of Michigan banned home improvement projects and GARDENING!?!? So you're locked at home, and ya can't go out except to go to the big box store or a riot -- heaven forbid you garden in your own back yard.

Meanwhile, these same "leaders" partied it up without masks, allowed their favorite hair salons to stay open, and otherwise lived like there was no Covid crisis…

So if you want to know where the division comes from, there ya go. I'll let Remy break it down:

YouTube link

I have to say that I have never heard about Walz, nor do I discount your own local accounts. Walz especially sounds like he lacked basic respect for the rights of citizens.

As I said, I think mistakes were made. The impact of the policies or lack of policies were a mixed bag, IMO. Too many died, it was an emotionally charged and politicized event. Policies and practices saved many lives, but scenes like the nursing home scandals were brutal, and the lack of medical leadership, with an unpredictable virus killing so many, resulted in many misguided reactions. People became ill taking chloroquine, the version used to clean aquariums, for example.

RE: masking…only N95s, properly worn, could help.If you could find them. Distancing helped, but the unforeseen negative impacts were many. Cuprum is right that other diseases took an unknown toll as people did not get treatment.

I believe that masking and distancing saved lives as a matter of common sense. Americans embraced neither of these things as a whole, resisted them sometimes, but the policies on these things also had serious impacts on the economy and education and people spoke out.

In trying to protect us, officials sometimes went too far. In ignorance, paranoia, or for power. But I believe they did save a lot of lives as well, using common sense avoidance of the virus. History will have to judge the right and wrong of it.

SB and Caprum +1

I too have direct experience with the hospitals. My parents were in and out the whole time and either my sister or I, were there. Masking when mandatory, and not masking when not mandatory.

I talked with nurses constantly. Most scoffed at the masking, as most people did NOT have N95's. So basically useless, especially the cloth masks.

Yes I too heard the respirators were a death sentence. We lost a good friend who they placed on one. One of my buddies, retired from medicine, was in very bad condition and they told him he was going on one. He refused and said he wanted the Mono, colonial antibodies. He got them and was fine within 2 days.

When I finally caught covid, (after the mandatory 2 vaccines and my first booster. 🙄), I told my doctor I wanted the monoclonal antibodies. Got them and within 2 days much better. Same with my in-laws. The Antibodies are the only thing I have firsthand knowledge, worked every time.

The hospitals twice listed my mother with Covid when we took her in. She never had Covid, but was in for seizures. I was told later from nurses about the hospital bonus for Covid deaths. We may never know how many truly died from Covid.

Yes Covid was conveniently used by the Democrats for political purposes. Directly with changing rules for the 2020 election (some of which have not been rescinded). Mail in ballots (not to be confused with absentee ballots). Mass mailings of those ballots to anyone on voting rolls(which had not been validated in many areas for years sometimes). 6 foot distancing (as much as 10 foot in at least one case) for ballot validation. Hey when playing a wargame with written rules, try and verify what your opponent wrote from 6 to 10 feet away, I dare you. 😉 miraculously the 2020 election resulted in the most votes for one candidate in the history of the United States. A candidate who spent the vast majority of his campaign, at his home and in a basement. 🙄

I won't go into the vaccines and lies there, nor the side effects of the vaccines that are still appearing. Nor the ridiculous vaccination of young children.

Many other things, you have also brought up.

We also will never know how many died in China. Many? Few? Nor will we know if this was intentional. An experiment by the Chinese government?

Anyone in the US who contributed to this gain of function research, should be punished to the full extent of the law.

If Fauci gets a pardon this month, IMO it proves his complicity.

I don't think Fauci will get a pardon, which is an admission of guilt as I understand it. One guy getting the blame seems unlikely to me, but the system is still not well prepared for new diseases on this scale, IMO. Where are the lessons learned? Back to my original point, no real consensus on a lot of this across the country.

I have had Covid twice – both times from friends who were more casual than me about precautions. At least I believe that…. I don't remember that those first vaccines were mandated, but there were long lines to get them here in Libachusetts. I came down with a later variant as the virus mutations weakened, took Paxlovid, recovered quickly. I have had all the shots and still got sick. Was it less severe because of the vaccine? Who knows?

The gain of function research thing is not going to get resolved. By itself as a concept it has been used to find new vaccines. But anything involving the Chinese government is suspect, IMO.

I recall that one of our aircraft carriers was incapacitated when half the crew was sick. There are so many facets of the pandemic to assemble into a complete narrative that addresses issues on all sides of this that I still think it's too early to judge. I think there will be things that will never be known, things we disagree on, things both sides are right or wrong about.

There were those for which the vaccine was mandated. Military, health care workers, nursing homes workers, some businesses, etc..

I did give the impression it was mandated for me.. sorry about that. It was "highly recommended' I get the first two and booster, as I was in the "danger group". I had friends and relatives that the vaccine was forced on, or lose their jobs. But I was not one.

Those first 3 shots I believed in. I believed, as they told me, it would prevent me from catching and spreading covid. After I and others I knew had caught it and some like myself, suffered side effects, I stopped taking the shots.

I have said before, I knew those who took the vaccines, used masks and died. I knew some who did none and died. Same with those who did or did not catch the disease. Some who still take every vaccination, seem to contract it more often. I have no idea why.

Cuprum2, SBminisguy and 35thOVI +1

I don't remember that those first vaccines were mandated, but there were long lines to get them here in Libachusetts.

MANDATED! In wonderful Gavin Newsoms California your damn vax card could be CHECKED BY POLICE at the door to a big box store and you would be DENIED entrance if you couldn't show your internal medical passport.

Dokumenty, pozhaluysta!

Wanted to stay employed in any government job? Mandatory. Wanted to travel anyplace, get on a plane? Mandatory. Wanted to stay employed in any health related sector? Mandatory.

And don't forget -- if you get the jab, ya can't get sick. If ya get the jab, you can't spread the virus -- it gets stopped cold, yes? All untrue. Oh, and perfectly safe except my teen son got the shakes, body aches and heart palpitations after getting jabbed the second time with *experimental and largely untested novel mRNA treatment*. We said screw that, no boosters, no more jabs, we'll live by Amazon delivery if we have to.

Turns out the cure is worse than the disease for young people and can lead to death. There was so much fear promoted so broadly that in addition to the physical harm from the mRNA treatments, the deaths and disease caused by delayed treatments and routine exams, that I still see fear-scarred people driving around in their cars by themselves wearing masks and even face shields!!

Yes I knew they were mandated for various officials. I was retired by then, and not mandated as a private citizen as far as I knew. Masks were required in many public spaces. I avoided stores except for groceries. I did feel paranoid for a time.

I don't remember getting any guarantees about the shots working either. But it became obvious pretty quickly that they did not work for some people. The airlines required Covid test documentation, and it was hard to find tests, especially overseas. There are tons of issues around the way things were managed, as I am learning here.
.

While it's too early to tell, SB, we may well have given a lot of otherwise healthy young people chronic ailments like POTS that will stay with them for life, so that obese Boomers can eke out the last few years of their poor life choices in uninterrupted self-indulgence.

Tragic, and at some level, a metaphor for modern America. And they expect us to be polite about it.