korsun0  | 27 Dec 2024 5:46 a.m. PST |
link Interesting story this one. Wonder what did happen? |
Editor in Chief Bill  | 27 Dec 2024 5:59 a.m. PST |
Holes from shrapnel on the tail. |
Legion 4  | 27 Dec 2024 9:30 a.m. PST |
The holes in the aircraft look like they could have been made by an exploding missile. Or maybe AAA, like ZSU 23-4, etc. But I only saw the footage briefly on FOX a few hours ago … I and those interviewed in the media once seeing the footage of crash. With the parts of the aircraft scattered everywhere. Were surprised to find out later how many of the passengers actually survived. Pretty damned amazing … |
Griefbringer | 27 Dec 2024 10:58 a.m. PST |
I haven't seen myself pictures of the holes in the tail, but in the news they have been described as looking as if caused by shrapnel (from an external explosion). If this is the case, then there would likely be actual pieces of shrapnel still embedded inside the plane – or even in some of the passengers. Waiting for technical analysis; according to news also representatives of the aircraft manufacturing company intend to be present on the location. Or maybe AAA, like ZSU 23-4, etc. AFAIK explosive munitions for ZSU-23-4 do not have proximity fuses, instead exploding on contact, so unlikely to be a cause of shrapnel damage. Actual hit from a 23 mm round would have caused rather serious damage. |
Editor in Chief Bill  | 27 Dec 2024 12:17 p.m. PST |
Were surprised to find out later how many of the passengers actually survived. And able to exit the wreckage on their own. But reportedly in very bad shape. (Looks like the plane was upside-down when it came to rest.) |
Legion 4  | 27 Dec 2024 9:12 p.m. PST |
AFAIK explosive munitions for ZSU-23-4 do not have proximity fuses, instead exploding on contact, so unlikely to be a cause of shrapnel damage. Actual hit from a 23 mm round would have caused rather serious damage. I don't think it does either. It would have had to have been direct hits. But an AAA missile would have exploded near the target. Hitting it with shrapnel … But until the report is released, we won't know for sure. Unless there is a cover up …
And able to exit the wreckage on their own. But reportedly in very bad shape. Yes, I saw on one piece of footage one of passengers very bloodied being dragged away from the wreckage. He was alive, but I don't know how bad his injuries were. He may not have made it through the day ? I hope he did and will eventually recover … But as it seems in events like this some survivors don't make it. Die in the hospital, etc.
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79thPA  | 27 Dec 2024 9:26 p.m. PST |
Russia is floating the theory that the plane was taken down by a bird strike. |
Wolfshanza  | 27 Dec 2024 10:27 p.m. PST |
Yeah, a bird with an explosive head ! Sheesh ! |
Griefbringer | 28 Dec 2024 1:40 a.m. PST |
Yeah, a bird with an explosive head ! What is the terminal velocity of an unladen swallow? Collisions with birds tend to occasionally cause damage to airplanes landing or taking off, but usually such damage is to the front of the aircraft – especially vulnerable locations including engines and the cockpit windscreen. It is possible to make birds carry small loads, consider for example messenger pigeons, or tracking devices. It would thus be possible to attach a small explosive charge to a bird, with an impact fuse that would trigger it in case of a high velocity collision (such as in-air collision with an aircraft). That would likely add something to the damage, as well as make a mess of whatever was left of the bird itself. That said, coming up with a flying bird bomb that could cause shrapnel damage would be trickier – besides the explosive, the bird would need to carry also ball bearings or other suitable shrapnel (adding greatly to the weight), as well as some means of triggering the charge in the proximity of an aircraft, and only aircraft (not close to buses, trains, buildings, ground etc.). Even if somebody came up with suitable design for proximity-bursting flying bird bomb most fowl, there is still the velocity difference between bird and the plane, which would likely result the bird encountering the front end of the plane – thus any shrapnel damage from the proximity-triggered blast would be expected to be to the front rather than the tail of the aircraft, unless there would be additional delay built into the fuse system. So overall, I would not be too concerned about birds blowing up and peppering you with shrapnel. However, at the moment I would not like to recommend trying air travel in the European part of Russia (or in Belarus). |
Nine pound round | 28 Dec 2024 5:02 a.m. PST |
Birds smash in canopies or get ingested into engines- they don't pepper the tail with shrapnel. But as a Russian once told me, "only a Russian can lie like this." |
79thPA  | 28 Dec 2024 6:49 a.m. PST |
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20thmaine  | 28 Dec 2024 6:58 a.m. PST |
Putin has now publicly apologised, which presumably means it was shot down one way or another. |
Griefbringer | 28 Dec 2024 8:47 a.m. PST |
And on other news, at least five air companies have cancelled their regular flights to Russia for at least a month… |
Legion 4  | 28 Dec 2024 7:12 p.m. PST |
Well from what the reports I heard today said a Russian SAM frag'd the aircraft. I remember seeing the initial footage of the fuselage with what looked like shrapnel pock marks along it. What really amazes me is like 27 people survived. And some hobbled with the help of a medic. Close as to a Christmas Miracle as I ever saw … Putin has now publicly apologised, But still admitted nothing … Once KGB always KGB … |
mjkerner | 28 Dec 2024 8:59 p.m. PST |
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wardog | 29 Dec 2024 12:14 p.m. PST |
i assume that missile battery crew are already on their way to the frontlines? |
Tango01  | 29 Dec 2024 3:49 p.m. PST |
"Where's Cuprum?…" He walks through the streets of his village in Siberia with a bag on her head so that no one can see his shame…
Armand |
Legion 4  | 29 Dec 2024 10:50 p.m. PST |
"Where's Cuprum?…" I thought it was "Where's Waldo ?" … |
Nine pound round | 30 Dec 2024 7:41 p.m. PST |
Surfing Telegram, in a desperate search for an explanation that's not too obviously fraudulent, maybe. |
Legion 4  | 30 Dec 2024 9:25 p.m. PST |
With all that is also going on in the USA and the world. I have not heard about any more about drones flying all over parts of the USA. |
Tango01  | 30 Dec 2024 9:50 p.m. PST |
"Where's Cuprum?…" Russia Restricts Its Internet link Armand |
Cuprum2  | 01 Jan 2025 6:12 a.m. PST |
Tango, the only one who disgraces himself here is the one who constantly publishes fakes. And that's you))) I just didn't go into this thread, because its title didn't interest me. Here's a photo of the damage to the plane.
The version about a bird strike is the version of the deceased crew, which they voiced when communicating with the dispatcher. But they talked about a flock of birds hitting the cabin. The recording of the conversation was published almost immediately after the incident. But the message about the emergency was received at an altitude of about 30 thousand feet. I very much doubt that you can collide with any birds there. But these damages suggest that another reason is possible. The investigation will answer which one. The plane crashed on the territory of a third country – Kazakhstan. From the moment of damage, the plane crossed the Aral Sea (312 km) heading to the airfield in Aktau (Kazakhstan). The plane was supposed to land in Chechnya, the city of Grozny. At the time of its arrival, Russian air defense was repelling an attack by Ukrainian drones. Landing was prohibited and an alternate airfield was assigned (230 km), but after the damage the plane became difficult to control and the pilots decided to land on flat terrain (the most convenient one was Kazakhstan).
The plane crashed during landing, but thanks to the competent work of the pilots, a significant number of passengers were saved. The plane was piloted by Russian pilot Igor Kshnyakin. There were 62 passengers and five crew members on board. 38 people died. 25 of them were citizens of Azerbaijan, seven were Russian, six (including two children) were from Kazakhstan. 29 people survived, they were hospitalized (including three children). Versions: - An air defense missile hit. It doesn't matter if it was a Buk, a Pantsir or something else. A hit to the fuselage at such an altitude is not just a hole, it is the destruction of the plane in the air. Doubtful. The claims that the missile accidentally hit a civilian airliner while aiming at a drone also look pretty stupid. UAVs are low-flying targets that do not deliberately gain altitude, but fly in accordance with the terrain to be invisible to radars. Their ceiling is several hundred meters. Accordingly, air defense systems operate at exactly this altitude. It is certainly possible to assume that some "crazy" salvo somehow went 11 kilometers up, but it is practically unrealistic. Another matter, if the plane had already been approaching the landing level and was in the same flight level as drones, this could not be ruled out. There are many blank spots in this tragic story. And a lot of very uncomfortable questions for the Russian authorities. Why was a special regime prohibiting flights not introduced during the attack on Grozny? Why did the air traffic control service that was guiding this airliner not have any contacts with the military? After all, not only did the plane really approach the air defense zone, it also suffered from the action of drone jammers, and flew for almost an hour practically blind. Of course, the interested party will immediately make accusations, but I think the Kazakhs will soon voice the reasons for the damage to the plane. Moreover, Azerbaijan is participating in the investigation. Footage of the plane crash during landing. YouTube link Well, let's not forget that someone recently shot down his own F/A-18 under similar circumstances and almost shot down another one. |
Cuprum2  | 01 Jan 2025 6:14 a.m. PST |
As for the Internet, Tango – don't even hope))) Russia doesn't do anything that the West doesn't do. You turn off Russian channels – Russia turns off yours. The triumph of freedom of information all over the world))) |
Cuprum2  | 01 Jan 2025 7:39 a.m. PST |
The flight path of the crashed plane before landing and negotiations with the dispatcher: YouTube link |
Legion 4  | 01 Jan 2025 7:27 p.m. PST |
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Cuprum2  | 01 Jan 2025 8:34 p.m. PST |
This could be a terrorist attack, for example. Moreover, it could have been timed to coincide with a raid by Ukrainian drones. An interesting version? I'm fantasizing… Negotiations are approaching. A powerful anti-Russian news item is needed. Someone installs a small explosive device with a timer to damage the aircraft's control systems (and in the area of drones' operation, the air defense will suppress any external signals). And at the moment of landing, the drones attack, the air defense systems work, and the plane crashes at the Grozny airport. Excellent work… But the plane is delayed in flight for several minutes, let's say, because of a headwind. And things are no longer going so smoothly. Let's wait for the end of the investigation. I don't think it will be long – a significant part of the fuselage and all the flight recorders have been preserved. |