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"An ECW "uniform" question" Topic


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518 hits since 13 Dec 2024
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP13 Dec 2024 2:06 p.m. PST

I find myself in need of just one more unit of Horse for my ECW English Royalist army.

To date, the figures in my previous 5 cavalier mounted units are shown in a variety of hats, clothes, boots & a range of colours. No two figures look alike.

My motivation is to show the individualism of the Royalists as opposed to more regimented Parliamentarian approaches.
I know this is probably a bit simplistic. However, in armies that generally aren't uniform (pun intended), it provides a degree of differentiation.

So, for unit #6, I'm thinking the Queen's Life Guard of Horse. These troops were largely raised by Q. Henrietta in her native France & presumably were a) mercenaries & b) largely Frenchmen.

My assumptions as follows: as to appearances, as more professional military than the average amateur Cavalier, they should be more uniform.
They should also be more "state of the art" helmets, breastplates, one armoured gauntlet, buff coats. The helmet, BTW should be a Zischagge type rather than an English "lobster" to give a faintly foreign feel. In a unit of 12 figures, I think the commander *could* be dressed in more classic cavalier fashion – floppy hat, lace & ribbons etc? I can get these figures.

Is my thinking way off? BTW AFAIK there is nothing definite in the records on this subject.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP13 Dec 2024 2:07 p.m. PST

I find myself in need of just one more unit of Horse for my ECW English Royalist army.

To date, the figures in my previous 5 cavalier mounted units are shown in a variety of hats, clothes, boots & a range of colours. No two figures look alike.

My motivation is to show the individualism of the Royalists as opposed to more regimented Parliamentarian approaches.
I know this is probably a bit simplistic. However, in armies that generally aren't uniform (pun intended), it provides a degree of differentiation.

So, for unit #6, I'm thinking the Queen's Life Guard of Horse. These troops were largely raised by Q. Henrietta in her native France & presumably were a) mercenaries & b) largely Frenchmen.

My assumptions as follows: as to appearances, as more professional military than the average amateur Cavalier, they should be more uniform.
They should also be more "state of the art" helmets, breastplates, one armoured gauntlet, buff coats. The helmet, BTW should be a Zischagge type rather than an English "lobster" to give a faintly foreign feel. In a unit of 12 figures, I think the commander *could* be dressed in more classic cavalier fashion – floppy hat, lace & ribbons etc? I can get these figures.

Is my thinking way off? BTW AFAIK there is nothing definite in the records on this subject.

DOUGKL13 Dec 2024 3:02 p.m. PST

Sounds like a good idea to me and as you said there is nothing definitive written.

Greylegion13 Dec 2024 5:20 p.m. PST

Damn, I didn't realize this could be so complex for this era. I like it though.

BillyNM13 Dec 2024 10:56 p.m. PST

I put my regiment in white sashes for a nod to their ‘Frenchness'. I also recall seeing a (Haythornthwaite?) illustration of a trooper or officer from the regiment wearing a steel broad-brimmed hat/helmet like this one:

picture

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP13 Dec 2024 11:35 p.m. PST

Yes. I can't access figures with these attributes but thanks for your suggestion.

KeepYourPowderDry Supporting Member of TMP14 Dec 2024 1:39 p.m. PST

Nothing definite recorded, but Royalist records are very incomplete/poorly researched.

You could go the full harquebusier route with English 3 bar pot, maybe throw the odd cuirassier into the mix too. Zischagges often converted into 3 bar pots (Doncaster museum has one, with no hinge to the face guard), so don't be put off by 3 bar pots. Maybe throw a hat into the mix too.

Senior officers were all English, I'm away from my IO lists until Monday so can't tell you about the rest of the officers (7 troops in 1644, fairly decimated from Cheriton onwards – struggling to field 2 troops at Naseby iirc. The French element may well have been over exaggerated by the Parliamentarian newsbooks to emphasise Royalist use of foreign troops.

If you are trying to replicate a later representation of them, I would go for a un-uniform look; Royalist supplies were fairly stretched/unreliable.

Please, please, please step away from the Haythornthwaite. It was very inaccurate when it first came out and nearly 40 years of research has been very unkind to it too.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP14 Dec 2024 5:17 p.m. PST

"The French element may well have been over exaggerated by the Parliamentarian newsbooks to emphasise Royalist use of foreign troops."
Nice point.
However, raised in France, Queen H.'s Life Guard was probably an anomaly in being heavily French before it arrived in England but as we all know, the vicissitudes of war would have quickly eaten into that Gallic majority with local recruits filling the ranks. Lancashire Lads or Cornish Coves seem a fine replacement to the original French Fellows.

However, every wargame unit is but a portrait of the unit in a very finite time span. I think my QH'sLGR will show them as they stepped off the boat, singing the Marseilles (wasn't written yet), dreaming of the Eiffel Tower (not built) & cursing Macron under their breath ( …etc).

'Historical Authenticity' is my middle name.

KeepYourPowderDry Supporting Member of TMP14 Dec 2024 10:34 p.m. PST

I agree Ochoin, the best that we can achieve is a pastiche.

To be honest I doubt that French mercenaries looked any different to English soldiers, with the exception of berets, strings of onions around their necks and a gauloise permanently fixed to the corner of their mouths.

I've been intrigued by the image posted by BillyNM. It looks suspiciously in good condition. I believe it is a C19th fake, which has wound up in a French collection. (Royal Armouries Leeds has a great little display of Victorian fakes.) The style appears in image searches as 'cosplay french cavalier hat'.

There are examples, and a contemporary illustration of broad brimmed hats with zischagge style nose guards, but these appear to be secrets (on steroids) that were hidden under normal hats. Newbury museum has a wonderful example missing its noseguard, which it displays (back to front!) as a 'siege hat'. Les Invalides has a cuirassier suit with what can only be described as a pork pie hat with a three bar face guard.

I've often used the term 'lifeguard' to field cuirassiers as an excuse to have something a bit different…

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP15 Dec 2024 3:19 a.m. PST

KYPD, I think we share a similar sense of humour.
Is there any medical treatment available?

Thank you for your information. I will say it is wise to avoid confusing wargaming with actual history. It may come close at times but the second part of the term – gaming – says it all.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP16 Dec 2024 10:33 a.m. PST

I like the white sash idea. My 28mms "Queens" all have white plumes in their fashionable hats. My 15mms are an altogether more heterogeneous mob so the white sash would look good!

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