"Favourite Samurai Big Battle Rules?" Topic

Following the Samurai Skirmish rules poll, there was a request for bigger battle rules.

What's your favourite rules for Samurai big battles (larger than skirmish anyway). I think I've listed all the ones that usually get a mention on the FB Feudal Japanese gaming group. If your favourite isn't listed yet, please nominate.

* Art de la Guerre
* Battles in the Age of War
* Chrysanthemum Throne
* DBA (including Big Battle DBA)
* DBM/DBMM
* Hail Caesar
* Impetus
* Killer Katanas
* Might of Arms
* Mortem et Gloriem
* No Dachi No Dice
* Pike and Shotte
* To the Strongest
* Triumph
* Warhammer Ancient Battles
* Warmaster Ancients

For me, it's Gempei War using DBA/BBDBA.

Battles in the Age of War looks great for Sengoku period, but haven't played it yet.

Gempei War is the name of the rules?

I still haven't found a ruleset that does it for me. With the unique battle formations, the relationship and cooperation of troops types, the influence of "honor" and social codes…it's a hard balance to find a ruleset that factors these in without being too fiddly.

It's also hard for me to conceptualize what the various formations and combat looked like on a mass scale. I feel comfortable I can wrap my brain around what a Viking shieldwall looked like but not a sengoku "crescent moon" or "keyhole" formation looked like and how I could represent it on the tabletop without much excessive effort.

I either own or have owned the majority of those rules…I think of them I see the most promise in Chrysanthemum Throne and No Dachi No Dice. I don't own Battles in the Age of War but have heard good things about it.

I might have to cobble my own together because I have a few boxes of Wargames Atlantic plastic samurai that need to be painted!

Path of Bones

Gempei War is the name of the rules?

Gempei War is the war (also spelled Genpei) 1180–1185CE; also used more broadly for the Heian period.

DBA is my preferred rules for that — III/54 Early Samurai 900–1300CE army list.

I use Command & Colors with 6mm miniatures.

Killer kantanas 2 embraces the period but not easy to pick up and play occasionally

Also looking at battles in the age of war

What do you want a unit to represent? If you want a unit to represent a body of troops with similar armor, weaponry, training, and mission then there are any number of options (see above). In Sengoku warfare this would mean a unit is representing a kumi (company) or perhaps a few kumi acting together.

But if you want a unit to represent a sonae of several hundred to a thousand troops, then it can't act as if it were all armed with one weapon/ trained to one level/ etc. A sonae was composed of multiple kumi with the full variety of weapons, and tactically is something akin to a pike-and-shot era regiment with sub-units of pike, arquebus/musket, and greatsword/halberd (but in the Japanese version, some "regiments" have a few dozen- or score horsemen as well). Rules which allow units to shoot, present pikes, form an assault formation with 2H weapon nutters in front, etc. are much fewer and farther between.

Ask yourself whose decisions you want your rules to allow and go from there. Oda Nobunaga ordered clans into battle; he didn't (indeed couldn't) give specific deployment instructions to the Tokugawa musketeers.

What do you want a unit to represent? If you want a unit to represent a body of troops with similar armor, weaponry, training, and mission then there are any number of options (see above). In Sengoku warfare this would mean a unit is representing a kumi (company) or perhaps a few kumi acting together.

But if you want a unit to represent a sonae of several hundred to a thousand troops, then it can't act as if it were all armed with one weapon/ trained to one level/ etc. A sonae was composed of multiple kumi with the full variety of weapons, and tactically is something akin to a pike-and-shot era regiment with sub-units of pike, arquebus/musket, and greatsword/halberd (but in the Japanese version, some "regiments" have a few dozen- or score horsemen as well). Rules which allow units to shoot, present pikes, form an assault formation with 2H weapon nutters in front, etc. are much fewer and farther between.

Ask yourself whose decisions you want your rules to allow and go from there. Oda Nobunaga ordered clans into battle; he didn't (indeed couldn't) give specific deployment instructions to the Tokugawa musketeers.

Eumelus, those are good points about scale. It's one of the reasons why I think is easier to zoom far out (refighting Sekigihara) or zoom all the way in (Test of Resolve) are more preferable to me.

One of the questions I have, how the heck do you replicate the army formations within a ruleset? I've seen various rules address it but I'm not sure how I've been satisfied with any of them.

Have you looked at Battles in the Age of War for how that uses combined arms units?

Taiko natch!

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Over the past year, I've purchased several Kicksstarters of STL files of both Samurai era infantry and for structures. I also have the Warlord Games army set and several decals sets. I'm ready to print out masses of infantry and am curious about large battles. I've already printed a lot of the buildings. Samurai – Battles in the Age of War appears interesting, but I've found very little written or in videos on this or other large battle rule sets. Test of Honor and Ronin seem to have gotten all of the attention, but are skirmish sets. I'll be using 28mm miniatures, but most rule sets can scale well enough to accommodate.