"US allows Ukraine to use ATACMS to strike Russia" Topic

The move comes after what one former Ukrainian official called a "a significant and extremely painful delay."

Defense One: link

Yes, it is believed this is in response to the 11,000+ NORK troops now supporting Putin's war of aggression … Plus the POTUS is a short timer. And again much, much too late …

Russia has been sending missiles, drones and artillery rounds into Ukraine for 1,000 days now so its outrageous that ANYONE should complain when Ukraine fights back in kind.

And don't tell me its because the munitions are not manufactured by Ukraine – a lot of Russia's munitions have been made in Iran or North Korea for months and months.

I understand it hasn't been officially confirmed so hopefully the confirmation will be some ammo dumps and Su-34s unexpectedly blowing up. People should remember too that these 'long range' missiles are actually limited to less than 200 miles so it isn't like they are going to be hitting Vladivostok.

Hope they have the OK for Storm Shadow/SCALP too.

It is my understanding they are limited to attacking Kursk Oblast not just anywhere in Russia.

Bunkermeister

Russia learnt long ago, during the Cold War, that the best way to deal with the West was to threaten them, knowing full well the West would not present a united front to anything but a full scale invasion or Nuclear strike.
Putin was schooled in this throughout his life, so its no wonder he has been doing penny-packet invasions and threatening the West of 'Dire Consequences' if 'Red Lines' are crossed.

Re Stormshadow/Scalp, I am sure We in the UK and France have been pushing for their free use by Ukraine since their introduction, but held off to not undermine the US limitations on the use of ATACMS.
We will probably not make a public declaration of our change in policy and let our missiles do the talking…unless its in our own interests to do so, why give Putin the heads up?

Today, Ukraine launched a strike with these missiles on an ammunition depot in the Bryansk region of Russia.
Well… It is impossible to use these weapons without the direct involvement of NATO military structures. And this means that NATO has directly entered the war against Russia. It will be interesting to see what Russia's response will be.

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"And this means that NATO has directly entered the war against Russia" Perhaps your new found North Korean friends will save you in your illegal war,

Tally Ho!

It is impossible to use these weapons without the direct involvement of NATO military structures.

What does that mean?

And this means that NATO has directly entered the war against Russia.

Why is it not like any other weapon system? Russia provides arms to many countries.

It will be interesting to see what Russia's response will be.

Nothing much they can do, I suspect.

Well buhu Cuprum2. If you feel that NATO has joined in feel free to launch an all out attack on "NATO". If you want total war you can easily get it.

My guess is Russia will do nothing. Russia will bitch and moan and play the victim (as usual) but not much else. At least not openly.

It is a well known fact though that Russia is conducting secret attacks on the west. Either through proxies or directly. Several communication cables have been sabotaged in the Baltic Sea and Russia is behind it. There have been terrorist attack attempt through proxies. The problem is that even though we "know" Russia is behind the sabotage attacks "the west" is too scared to act on it.

This is a mistake I believe. Russia, as the bully it is, only respects strength and violence so "west" should respond with such. Either to supply Ukraine with even more and better weapons with a "weapons free" option or clandestinely sink the Russian ships responsible for the sabotage against the communication cables. And the deny that "we" did it.

Russia needs to lose this war or they will feel they can do it again. Russia needs to be cut down quite a bit. Destroy the Russian armed forces and then "seal off" the country and let them rot.

I have to wonder what would happen if a NATO North Atlantic surface ship were to sidle up within hailing distance of a Russian surface ship, play some nice Russkie music over the PA to get everyone's attention, then broadcast an announcement.

"If Russia throws a nuke, you die first. We thought you deserved to know that."

Then have a nuclear sub surface not far off, loiter a couple minutes, then submerge again.

I wonder how many Russian ships it'd take before one cracked and pitched their officers overboard.

I'm sure Cuprum will have a comeback, but I won't know what it is. I stifled him years ago.

My guess is Russia will do nothing. Russia will bitch and moan and play the victim (as usual) but not much else. At least not openly.

They are playing the usual card today. "Oh, Ukraine launched six ATACMs at us, but we shot them all done. No big deal."

Same thing they said about every other weapon system Ukraine has been given.

Russia's response will probably be to throw someone else out of a window for criticising the "special miltary operation".

"They are playing the usual card today. "Oh, Ukraine launched six ATACMs at us, but we shot them all done. No big deal."

Same thing they said about every other weapon system Ukraine has been given."

1. If you give Ukraine weapon X, it will be a major escalation and mean NATO is in direct conflict with Russia, risking nuclear war.

2. If Ukraine uses weapon X, there will be the most severe consequences.

3. Weapon X is no big deal and we have already destroyed all those that Ukraine has attempted to use, with no damage sustained by Russia.

Rinse and repeat.

Looks like China.

Subject: Visegrád 24 on X: "BREAKING: The Chinese ship Yi Peng is the main suspect in the investigation into who cut two undersea telecom cables between Finland-Germany and Sweden-Lithuania. The ship sailed right over the cables when they were cut at 8am GMT on Sunday and 2am GMT on Monday. 🇨🇳🇩🇪🇫🇮🇸🇪🇱🇹 t.co/gOvzxljGAK / X


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We'll find out soon. Be patient)))

Your hyped up weapons have not shown themselves to be anything special – they have simply added to the collections of Russian museums)))

Did the Russians damage the cables? Probably the same Russians who blew up the German gas pipelines?

Remember what one Russian leader of Georgian origin said? "The enemy will be defeated! Victory will be ours!")))

Well, Cuprum, you can quote Stalin all you want, but if you think that's going to scare or persuade anyone, good luck to you.

Oh, and you might not want to sit in front of the windows.

Words don't scare anyone – actions do. I already said – let's wait. I wonder what Putin's balls are made of…

I'll leave that subject to you.

As I see it, Washington and the rest of the West have an asinine reaction to aggression. Every response must be calculated and measured.
The only response permitted is to match the aggression, but not to the extent of actually stopping it.
So we delay anything that might be useful in stopping the aggression. All we do is ratchet it up gradually to match that if the aggressor.
If we had responded massively from the beginning…. Take it from there.

It's why nobody in their right mind trusts Washington when we crow that we support freedom.
The current POTUS is a pusillanimous pussyfooter.
The next one will just give it all away.

Well, feel free to take up the burden any time you want. We're not exactly thrilled by it these days.

"It will be interesting to see what Russia's response will be."

If the ATACMS are really that effective, look for Russian tac nukes to be sent to the areas of the launchers. Escalation leads to escalation…

If the Russians had a better tactic available, would they be retaliating by cutting cables?

Nothing much they can do, I suspect.

Save for saber rattling, making threat he can't back up, etc. He may be out of opinions. Save for nukes … but he isn't that desperate or that stupid.

If we had responded massively from the beginning…. Take it from there.

It's why nobody in their right mind trusts Washington when we crow that we support freedom.
The current POTUS is a pusillanimous pussyfooter.
The next one will just give it all away.

Bingo !!!!

Subject: U.S. Closes Its Kyiv Embassy, Warning of ‘Significant Air Attack' – The New York Times


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Subject: Biden makes another Ukraine policy shift with approval of sending anti-personnel mines


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The reports are that since the Russians have lost so much of the armor to Ukrainian's forces with US/NATO equipment. They are making more dismounted Infantry attacks. These APERS mines will cost them more heavy losses. Slowing or blunting their attacks.

Plus, IIRC these mines have batteries and go inert in a certain amount of time. To reduce the possibility of civilian losses. As I have mentioned before when on the ROK DMZ, '84 & '85. Mines that have been buried there since '53 still can be deadly. E.g. A Korean farmer found one that somehow was not found or marked. We had to medevac him. He only lost part of his foot, IIRC …

We were sure to be more careful operating in the area. Who knows if any others were missed ? And can still blow your foot off …