"Modeling rivers in NW Europe" Topic

Where I live in the mountains of Northern Calif, the rivers are shallow and Rocky, I wouldn't want to try and drive a tank through one. We do have larger rivers, but they aren't of the type likely to be used in a wargame.
So the question is, when you model a river for Eurpe for Normandy or the Bulge (my areas of interest) skirmish battles, do you make rocky rivers or make them deep?

Wouldn't that depend on the individual river? And where exactly on the river? And when?

But in accounts of the Bulge, I've never run into a body of water which could be crossed by vehicles without the use of bridges. Given the temperatures, I suspect any infantry who forded them would be dead soon enough.

Although it depends, many of the the smaller rivers in Northwest Europe are not that huge but do tend to have steep or marshy banks which makes s virtually impassable to vehicles without engineer assisstance. You do get 'rocky' rovers in more mountainous terrain, but the Bulge is hardly mountainous, just hilly. There are lots of bigger rivers too of course, wide, deep and fast flowing. It is pretty wet here, it rains a lot, constantly, even in "summer" unlike California. Paris has a higher annual rainfall than London.

So my small rivers have grassy banks and the waterway running in a channel.

In the rulebook for "Panzer Leader," Section VII, K, it says:

"Northern European streams and small rivers are characterized by steep-sided meanders and silted bottoms. Further, they form depressions and support heavy vegetation offering excellent concealment. While not exceptionally swift, the depth of the slow moving water and the "mushy" consistency of the streambeds make streams unfordable for vehicles:
1. Vehicular units (including wagons) may never enter stream hexes except in (undestroyed) bridge hexes.
2. Non-vehicular units may enter stream hexes, but only after rolling a die once for each unit attempting to enter. A die roll of 1, 2, or 3 permits entry. If unsuccessful, a unit may not move during that movement phase. NOTE: The die must be rolled for each separate stream hex a unit attempts to enter."

I read that long ago, and it has kind of stuck in my head as I see or read about different streams and rivers. Bull Run, in Virginia, has steep sides, then the ground levels off, then you have the actual stream. You and I would have no trouble wading through the water. However, unless you find or make a cutting through the steep sides, the stream is unfordable for wagons, and very difficult for horses and other livestock because they can't get down to the water.

I've never been to northwest Europe, but the Tiber below Rome flows through a channel with a straight drop of about a meter (yard, two cubits, etc.) from the surrounding plain, then you have the water and another bank that goes nearly straight up a meter, and then flat land again. Looks for all the world like a king-sized version of Cow Creek back home in Kansas. I would think that, even for a tank, the meter drop to the water would be a problem, and they would want somebody with a bulldozer to make a cutting down to water level. Hence the importance of bridges in fighting around Rome (Battle of Milvian Bridge, Horatius at the bridge, etc.).

Grelber

As a Cavalry officer, we carried a small report book for doing a condition report to command. The section on rivers covered water flow, depth and bottom type. It also had us examine the banks in regards to composition and how steep they were.

So talking about European rivers, with would be a major factor as well.