"US blocks aid to Ukraine" Topic

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Sweden have given two AEW aircraft to Ukraine but USA blocks the transfer.

Same with the Gripen fighters. Same reason. Why is this? Why is the US administration so afraid of the Russians? Very weak and scared leadership. This weakness only emboldens Russia, China and Iran.

Very sad.

"ITAR free" has become a strong selling point in recent years

From the article and the discussion of a similar transfer to Poland, I would guess the issue is more a US worry about exposure of sensitive technology rather than fear of Putin's saber rattling. That is a real concern.

Chris

Why is this? Why is the US administration so afraid of the Russians? Very weak and scared leadership. This weakness only emboldens Russia, China and Iran.

I'm going with that …

US worry about exposure of sensitive technology rather than fear of Putin's saber rattling. That is a real concern.

That may be the reality of the situation. As the Cold War is now 2.0 … And all the same old suspects are still around …

well a AWAC would only fly over friendly territory. It might get shot down but that would be over Ukraine. Technology would therefore be safe, to a degree.

war is dangerous and risk losing technology would be bad but the longer the war drags on the greater the risk that the US is drawn into it. That will be more expensive.

This seems hardly worth the risk of exposing the tech unless NATO goes in full bore. Its like sending them a sample of the latest secret stuff.

Rather bold of Sweden as a new member of NATO

The were given before Sweden was a member. When Sweden stood alone. Same with all the other stuff Sweden has given with no strings attached. Same with the Gripen fighters Sweden wanted to give but US blocked.

When we give weapons they can be used as Ukraine wishes. They are then Ukraine property. The equipment is living their best lifes, doing what they were designed to do. No holds barred.

We have to reckon the US is no longer a friend but an isolationist dictatorship. We the Europeans must now treat the US as a failed state and prevent ANY European technology falling into US hands as it will end up in Putin's hands within minutes. Clearly this is the real reason the US won't allow stuff to Ukraine, it will not help their new friend Putin.

Maybe true, UshCha, under the current admin, but not the newly elected.

I don't think that is what he means, though.

How ridiculous.

Trump wins an election and he's a dictator.

afaik he hasn't dissolved congress or arrested his political opponents. when that happens call him a dictator.

otherwise

🤔
UshCha,

I think this has more to do with tech knowledge. But since you made accusations about the US…..

1) If you are using our technology, then we have a say. If not, stick your finger in the air and send it to the Ukraine.
2) take your tax money and develop your own weapons and defenses. It's your country and continent.
3) why would you rely on another country to defend you? Spend your money on your military. Increase your military manpower. Defend yourselves. Dump the socialist welfare programs.
4) The US is a failed State? What does that make you who say you were dependent on the US to defend you?
5) This is a European conflict, just as WW1 and WW2 were, until you dragged us into them. I'd say the same about the 7 years war and the Napoleonic wars. Don't make this WW3 and drag us in again. Settle your squabbles for a change.

Unless of course, you are buying the Russian line that this war started due to NATO expansion. Are you? If yes, then this is all of our problems. But you would be agreeing with Putin and that would legitimize his invasion as defensive.

UshCha – consider yourself fortunate you have the enlightened Keir Starmer to guide your nation through perilous times. His steady hand and wisdom concerning whom to imprison over their social media comments must be reassuring to you. His willingness to clam down on dissent is a testament to his fight against dictatorship. We in the States will just have to hunker down and adjust to our new reality as tens of millions of us failed to vote as you think we should have. We are so sorry.

the US is no longer a friend but an a solationist dictatorship

A funny kind of dictator whose core platform includes REDUCING the power and reach of the federal government, DOWNSIZING the government bureaucracy, CUTTING taxes and regulations, promoting Individualism and the Free Market, eliminating federal censorship programs, and promoting peace instead of war.

Happy to see that Leftist fear-mongering didn't work.

If that's the European/UK attitude, Russia can take them as far as I'm concerned.

Stupid me, I thought the only "a solationist dictatorship " in the world was Bongolesia.

35th, I think Japan had a lot to do with USA entering WW2 …

"35th, I think Japan had a lot to do with USA entering WW2"

No doubt, but Europe( and Roosevelt), would have had us there shortly, just like WW1.

Before being in the war, who were we supplying?

Once the war started, where did we throw our main material and manpower into? Who got the majority of our media attention? Short of our Navy/Marines, Europe got the cream of everything.

Lastly, we started neither Pacific or European.

Europe really needs to understand that it needs to defend itself. Many european countries have downsized their military alot under the pretense that there would never again be a military threat. And if there is a threat US would deal with it.

Even now too many european countries do not increase military spending. This is disgraceful. Why should the US defend you when you do not want to defend yourself?

When it comes to tech the current "rules" say the country of origin has a say how their tech can be used or transfered. I agree with that thought but I do not agree its implementation by the current US adrministration.

35thOVI.

You started this!

No we didnt, you invaded Poland.

Fawlty Towers

Gray Bear, SBmini, Lester +1/ea.

Ushcha !?!??!?!!!? 😱 Guess I missed that day in geopolitics class ? 🤔

be careful Soledad. Questioning our European / UK allies is likely to get you labeled a Putin dupe. Nevermind the reasonable request that these now very mature democracies share the burden more fairly.

So, what happens to Ukraine now? The hot seat is now under a new butt. All these should have done solutions will take care of things? I hope so after all of the inertia.

Uscha we are neither your friend or your enemy now. Good luck and get going on your own militaries over there.

Lester, you have the ball..stop playing defense!

I agree- if the technology is developed by the US, or any other country, they should have a loud say in the security of that technology.

What I certainly do not agree with is the US slapping an ITAR restriction on Aussie technology and then trying to tell us to whom we may export that technology. Yes, they tried that. No, I don't know what happened next as I retired before the catfight was finished (and I wouldn't discuss the details in any case).

"We have to recon the US is no longer a friend but an a solationist dictatorship."-Ushcha

The American people are handling this election better than Ushcha is clearly…

"We the Europeans must now treat The US as a failed state"-Ushcha

It seems Ushcha feels entitled to speak for all of Europe…

"Clearly this is the real reason the US won't allow stuff to ukraine it will not help there new friend Putin."-Ushcha

If your reference was to Trump he doesn't take office until January 2025 so this decision was made by the Biden administration.

Hey, guys, calm down… The old global project that had been in the works since the fall of the USSR has simply collapsed. "Pax Americana" is becoming a thing of the past and, to be honest, the US really did pay for the whole party.
Now, as far as I understand, the global world will disintegrate into spheres of influence, as it always has been before, and will move towards a new globalization, already on some other principles. Neoliberalism has been discarded, the time of conservatives has come.

And yes, in my opinion, a parade of sovereignties will soon begin in Europe. Great Britain was the first swallow…

+1 Ushcha. While he isnt speaking for the whole of Europe, he is probably speaking for the vast majority. Same in Australia and many countries in Asia.

It is obvious that there is a massive difference in perception between people in the USA and outside the USA. However, the previous Trump administration gave away top secret information to Russia and was known as the weak link in security. It also abandoned allies (in the Kurds) and it looks like it will do the same with Ukraine. It started trade wars with allies. Perception outside the USA was that the Trump USA was untrustworthy and weak.

Ukraine is not a European conflict. The USA has obligations under the Budapest Memoranda.

And complaining about socialist programs in Sweden is a lack of awareness. Sweden has longer life expectancy (approx 4 years longer), more billionaires per capita, less national debt per capita (18k vs 98k), is happier, lower corruption, higher freedom (world freedom index), etc. Sure the USA has higher GDP per capita – but that isn't the only measure of country success. Life expectancy is a good crude indicator, and the USA is 55th and falling.

"And complaining about socialist programs in Sweden is a lack of awareness. Sweden has longer life expectancy (approx 4 years longer), more billionaires per capita, less national debt per capita (18k vs 98k), is happier, lower corruption, higher freedom (world freedom index), etc. Sure the USA has higher GDP per capita – but that isn't the only measure of country success. Life expectancy is a good crude indicator, and the USA is 55th and falling."

🤔 would that have been possible if they were forced to keep their military strong enough to defend themselves and spend on their own military developmental technology? Instead of being able to throw that money elsewhere?

"However, the previous Trump administration gave away top secret information to Russia and was known as the weak link in security"

Reuters 2017:

"The White House declared the allegations, first reported by the Washington Post, incorrect.

"The story that came out tonight as reported is false," H.R. McMaster, Trump's national security adviser, told reporters at the White House, adding that the leaders reviewed a range of common threats including to civil aviation.
"At no time were intelligence sources or methods discussed. The president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known…I was in the room. It didn't happen," he said."

This was all put out after the "false" Russian collusion garbage after the 2016 election. The proven "incorrect" Clinton spawned Russian collusion controversy. But many still buy hook line and sinker.

I'll say again, as I have before. If Putin and Trump had been in collusion, why did he only take Ukrainian territory during the Obama and Biden administrations? Just does not make logical sense….does it.

He gave up the Kurds? 🤔 Biden gave up who and what? Afghanistan, Afghans, US soldiers, U.S. military property, airfields.

"Perception outside the USA was that the Trump USA was untrustworthy and weak."

Well I'd say you should reconsider your perceptions. Trump first term.. no new wars break out and allies forced to start paying up ( I can understand that would irk them). Biden administration: War in Ukraine, War in Middle East, shipping unsafe in the gulf and the Afghanistan fiasco. I won't go into the disaster on the border.

Now he will be forced to try and clean up the mess being left behind. That won't be easy, nor will people on both sides be happy. He thinks he can solve it, more power to him, it won't be easy.

Well. Sweden became a NATO member this year. Before that Sweden was neutral and paid for its own defence. Sweden has therefore not profited on the US armed
Forces for the defence of Sweden.

Sweden had a huge defence force until approx 2008 when it was butchered by the politicians. Both right and left wing ones. At its biggest Sweden fielded about 800.000 men in uniform. Out of a total population of 8 million.

Sweden has a large armament industry and it has cutting edge technology. Of course we have bought some US tech and adopted it to Swedish standards. All countries buy tech and adopt it for their forces.

Just like the US which has bought quite alot of Swedish weapons, the AT4 being one example. The Carl Gustav RR being another example. The US rented Swedish subs to train against as Swedish subs and crews are top notch. A good deal for Both countries.

35th, the UK has only recently finished paying for all the US' help in WW2. It wasn't free. The Brits and Commonwealth forces also fought the Japanese in Burma and New Guinea, helping US forces defeat the common enemy.

We also gave you our atomic bomb research, enabling the quick development of the war winning weapons. The US then declined to give the UK the final designs, even literally kidnapping the British scientists involved to prevent them returning home with the information.

Wasn't there a US embargo on oil that the Japanese objected to and was a main cause for their attack on Pearl Harbour ?

Dagwood I believe you are talking about the post war loan.

"There never was any "WWII debt" owed by the United Kingdom to the United States. Post-war loans to the United Kingdom by the United States and Canada were paid off in 2006. EnlargeDownload Link Citation: Lend Lease Bill, dated January 10, 1941.Oct 8, 2023"

"Anglo-American loan officially Anglo-American Loan Agreement was a loan made to the United Kingdom by the United States on 15 July 1946, enabling its economy after the Second World War to keep afloat.[1] The loan was negotiated by British economist John Maynard Keynes and American diplomat William L. Clayton. Problems arose on the American side, with many in Congress reluctant, and with sharp differences between the treasury and state departments. The loan was for US$3.75 billion (equivalent to $58.59 USD billion in 2023) at a low 2% interest rate; Canada loaned an additional US$1.9 billion (equivalent to $29.69 USD billion in 2023). The British economy in 1947 was hurt by a provision that called for convertibility into dollars of the wartime sterling balances the British had borrowed from India and others, but by 1948, the Marshall Plan included financial support that was not expected to be repaid. The entire loan was paid off in 2006, after it was extended six years."

Dagwood I don't dispute that we fought together for mutual benefit. We were both attacked on December 7 by the Japanese.

None of us attacked Japan.

The Invasion of China by the Japanese started all on the path to war and escalation proceeded from there.

Roosevelt (who I have a low opinion of) made moves on resources that escalated it further. I sometimes believe he truly wanted a war, as a method to end the depression. That's probably controversial, but I've seen others espouse that theory as well. His dealings with Russia were naïve and way too trusting. As the post war world proved.

"President Franklin Delano Roosevelt made one of those escalating moves in July 1940 when he cut off shipments of scrap iron, steel, and aviation fuel to Japan even as he allowed American oil to continue flowing to the empire. Japan responded by entering resource-rich French Indochina, with permission from the government of Nazi-occupied France, and by cementing its alliance with Germany and Italy as a member of the Axis. In July 1941, Japan then moved into southern Indochina in preparation for an attack against both British Malaya, a source for rice, rubber, and tin, and the oil-rich Dutch East Indies. This prompted Roosevelt to freeze all Japanese assets in the United States on July 26, 1941, which effectively cut off Japan's access to US oil.
That move pushed Japan to secretly ready its "Southern Operation," a massive military attack that would target Great Britain's large naval facility in Singapore and American installations in the Philippines and at Pearl Harbor, thus clearing a path for the conquest of the Dutch East Indies. While diplomatic talks continued between the United States and Japan, neither side budged. Japan refused to cede any of its newly acquired territory, and the United States insisted that Japan immediately withdraw its troops from China and Indochina. "

But Germany and Italy and war started before 1941.

Soledad I know we all benefit from each other's technology.

Yes Sweden did not join NATO until recently. Yes they kept their defense up….. to a point. But they had no fear of a Russian invasion of their country and did not need to keep a nuclear, Naval or Air superiority over Russia, as the U.S. was doing it. So they were able to spend the extra money on other things.

Let's just say the US says: "We are done. We are going to defend only our hemisphere from now on. Europe and Asia, you are on your own." Does anyone believe without the US, Europe or Asia could stand up to China, Russia, North Korea? If you do believe you can, could you imagine the amount of money you would then have to pull out of everything else, just to defend yourselves? Increase your Navy's, Air Forces, Armies, develop Nukes..etc.

But yes, we all need each other.

I only got involved because of the comment disparaging the US and the assumption that WE MUST support the Ukraine and somehow Trump is going to do nothing and let the Ukraine fall.

He may negotiate a peace that cedes some occupied territory. That may be necessary to end the war.

Does anyone really believe the Ukraine can drive the Russian/(Koreans) completely out of the Ukraine? Does anyone believe the Russians will leave without something to save face? I don't.

As I remember, the Obama/Biden administration and Europe did nothing but invoke sanctions, when Russia invaded the Crimea and took it over.

What do any of us get when the war ends?

Ukraine a devastated country and economy. The non Russian nations, a massive rebuilding project that will cost trillions (and if I'm wrong and Russia takes all of the Ukraine, then they get a massive rebuilding process and A gorilla war that will drag on).

"allies forced to start paying up ( I can understand that would irk them)."-35thOVI

This is the source of the angst. They have let their military rot and now find themselves needing to spend enormous amounts of money to address a problem of their own making. On top of that they need to help Ukraine. All this at a time when they would rather spend their money on other things. It is very convenient to blame the USA for Europe's shortcomings and try to shame us into doing more…

None veteran civilians have no idea how any of the military based R&D testing and financing goes about.
Jokes about $95,000 USD toilet seats are out there but it is a real expenditure hiding tactic for the US.
The amount of R&D intelligence that the US is getting from both the Ukrainian War and the Hamas suppression will never be known by the public.
So the US will moderate funding and delivery system as needed.
The government opposition may protest but their military are getting their fair share of the intelligence as needed or on their own.
My interest is the lame duck period from now to January, though the military has already made plans on the period.

"My interest is the lame duck period from now to January, though the military has already made plans on the period."

Well I did hear yesterday that Biden plans on pushing another 6 billion to the Ukraine before leaving office.

Well most of the money given to Ukraine stays in the USA. It is put into American banks and is given to Munition producers and other military items.
Some will be earmarked to cover military goods given to Ukraine by allied powers such as in Europe.
So money never seems to leave the USA.
Gone are the days when flat crate loads of US money is sent in-country as happened in Iraq.

I'm pretty sure Iran received the money promised by Biden.

The Taliban also got a boat load of cash after the US disaster of a "withdrawal" there.

According to the government, Iran did not get their money back from Biden. It still has not been released due to the war.

Regardless, IMO the US Gov't handled Iran, Putin, Xi and Un very poorly. Geopolitical decisions that many say, and I agree lead to the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. After our enemies saw the US leaderships' A'stan plan. Leading to a debacle and convincing our enemies the US can be easily take advantage of. And they did, as we know predators take advantage of weakness. And again, they did/are …

Agree that we could have done better…the predators may also see the next Prez as easily played. I believe this happened in Helsinki and with the Taliban. I am not saying they will be correct this time. Much will depend on advisors and how turnover and purges impact the WH day to day operations. Stability will matter…

What do we think the plan is to quickly end the Ukraine war now that Trump and Musk have talked to Zelensky? We heard that it could be done even before the inauguration in 24 hours. It must involve giving up Ukrainian territory to Putin, I would think. But what does Zelensky get? Guarantees for Ukraine don't mean much with Putin. What about NATO's involvement?

Just saw some NATO officials/members on CNN … they support the new US leadership. Starting with the new POTUS in his first term as he woke up NATO. They have to pay their piece of the NATO defense agreement. And many have … They thought that is important … And it is …

Didn't someone else talk about paying your fair share ? Repeatedly … IIRC …

How will the new POTUS handle the war in Ukraine ? I await the plan. But we see how well risk adverse/fear of escalation leadership does it … Repeatedly saying "Don't" … well that dawg just don't hunt ! And no matter how many times it is said.

Like Beetlejuice … say it 3 times … But saying "Don't" … well seems you can say that to infinity …

Yes, but that's over. Biden is done. Now comes the time to back up the talk and walk the walk. I have long suspected that we are not privy to all the factors regarding policy on this war. But maybe I am wrong.

In any case, I don't know when the 24 hours to end the war will start. In his last term, it was always " we will be telling you all about it next week" on many things. I am hoping he will do better this time.

Just read a feed stating that Biden has increased the number of US defense contractors allowed to set up in Ukraine.

Yes, but that's over. Biden is done.

I think most know my feelings on this/him. 🤫

Now comes the time to back up the talk and walk the walk. I have long suspected that we are not privy to all the factors regarding policy on this war.

I could almost guarantee that.

But maybe I am wrong.

We all may … E.g. I thought Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine. But then I and others got schooled. Putin read the US top leadership better than many did. That being said, ol' Vlad has pretty much wrong about everything else in this war …