"Kingforce Churchill III" Topic

Well it made a change from a Sherman and any chance to get any Dragon kit locally I snap it up. Not quite the Churchill's debut at El Alamein (that was Dieppe) but six of then were there. Different exhaust system, rails along the side to store kit and that apron that was meant to shield the driver from blinding sand (which did not work). Just needs aerials and I suddenly noticed the kit is all defying gravity. None of it is tied to the rails, well not yet anyway.

Looks like a late War Churchill with a 75mm gun to me.

Best of luck with your project my good friend…

Armand

No, that is a six pounder with a welded turret. The NA75 looked very different turret wise. Saying that, this is no Sherman, so I had to buy two reference books on the Churchill.

Nice work, Deadhead, for an under-valued tank. I don't think any Mk. III survive (apart from the AVRE at Duxford), do they? Bovington, Cairns and Saumur all have Mk.IV and Mk.VII.

I will bet the odd one exists as a wreck on some firing ranges.

I know there are two Churchills in N Ireland (one is ex Irish Army) but they are a IV and a VI.

The tank museum has worked on one;

link

YouTube link

Straps for baggage and two aerials added, so now spray undercoated. The dark colour will be a dark chocolate brown, not green or black/grey as on many another Desert tank of the period. I have convinced myself that is correct…I think

Great job! Looking forward to a photo of the finished model.

So there is one! Thanks for the links, mate. One of my favourite tanks, for some reason. The first Airfix tank model I built, I think.

About half of Bovington was closed when I was there (mid-October 2019), due to a large function being held the next day. I knew about the closure, but my schedule couldn't be nudged to avoid it.

The Churchill Mk III* was armed with a QF 75mm Mk V gun .

Good point. The Churchill III could indeed be fitted with a US 75 and become a III*, but the six in Kingforce had the 6 pdr.

I will say again that I am no expert at all on the Churchill, but read everything I could find on its use at Alamein.

and I now see the guard around the left aerial was not used then> every photo confirms it…..sob. Off it comes and onto a Sherman one day.

Always ahd a spot in my heart for the Churchill.

It wasn't a US gun it was a rebored 6pdr but it did fire US ammo, first used in Italy so too late for Kingforce

It wasn't a US gun it was a rebored 6pdr but it did fire US ammo

That was the Churchill Mk III* , the Churchill NA75 the guns were taken from disabled and knocked out Shermans in North Africa .

Deadhead wrote "The Churchill III could indeed be fitted with a US 75 and become a III*" this is incorrect hence my reply

and you were right. I really did think that it was a spare Sherman 75, but even I knew that the NA75 looked different, back from Airfix Magazine days.

I will only again apologise about my Churchill ignorance (I have bought two more Churchill books in London, before watching a mind numbing game in East London. I read one in the second half….and I am serious)

No need to apologise I have a feeling you know more about Kingforce Churchills than 99% of people on here certainly more than me (I'm a NWE guy)

link

That is very useful and adds a photo I had not seen. The Churchill is now painted but I used a very dark, almost black, chocolate brown over the basecoat. I have been distracted by the arrival of a mass of artillery vehicles for "Waterloo in 20mm". So it and my DD are only half done and crewless and looking very forlorn on my shelves.

Thanks for the link

Finally done! God alone knows what happened to my introductory photo above!

DH, it went vegan!

The Churchill looks terrific, and so do the crew figures.

I've not looked into the King Force camo scheme, but curious what you can relate with your research into it (almost looks like a dark grey or black paint would be similar)?

Let me check that, but I have a vivid memory of reading that they used a very unusual chocolate brown, purely as that what was to hand. Or did I imagine that?

This might be a start and it seems very authoritative;

link

Also, here is my original intro photo;

Your 'skeleton' view reveals all your extra work!

Found an operations doc posted online by Chris C that might be of interest (I've just scanned at the pages so far, but it looks juicy – and was classified MOST SECRET) –

link

Absolutely fascinating primary sources. We have all seen Brad Pitt's AP bounce off a Tiger, but this brings home just how well the Churchill stood up to anything less than an 88. I had heard rumours that friendly fire at an unfamiliar silhouette played a part too. This confirms it. How daft to send them with such inexperienced crews.

Great reading and very new to me, certainly.

How daft to send them with such inexperienced crews.

Yes, here's an improved design we're keen to evaluate under combat conditions….you men, new to combat and having not seen these tanks before, right, hop in and let's give this a go!

Human history brims with staid decision making that renders technical details superfluous (that certainly seems the case "under wargaming conditions" too).