"The Campaign to Lie America Into World War II" Topic

"Seventy-eight years ago, on December 6, 1941, the United States was at peace with world. The next morning, local time, the Empire of Japan bombed the U.S. Navy base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Four days later, Nazi Germany issued a declaration of war against the United States. The American people were now unalterably involved in a global conflict that would take the lives of over 400,000 of their native sons.

But before Japan opened this door to war, the United States had been the target of an elaborate, covert influence campaign meant to push public opinion, by hook or by crook, into supporting intervention on the side of the British. Conducted by the United Kingdom's MI6 intelligence service, it involved sometimes witting (and often unwitting) collaboration with the highest echelons of the U.S. government and media establishment…"

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Armand

Protests at rallies, sexed up dossiers and fake news; who'd have thought it?

To be fair it wasn't the Brits first rodeo – remember the infamous Zimmermann telegram from WWI

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The British were fighting for their lives and desperately needed America in the war. Who's to say that any deception was wrong?

Sometimes bad efforts produce a good result. Sounds like the Latin map and religious memo were forecasting the future rather than just faking it. It is interesting that Donovan, of Irish descent, was so susceptible to British influence.

Check out a really good book "Operation Snow." It suggests there is evidence that an Under Secretary at the Commerce Department had become involved with a Soviet operative in the months before Pearl Harbor. He wasn't recruited. He was asked for help and the operative made a compelling case to convince the official of the rightness of the request.

The request was to harden the US position re Japan to try to back it into a corner to trigger a war with the US. The Russians wanted Japan embroiled in a war with the US to insure they couldn't threaten Russia.

Interestingly, the author makes a really compelling case that Japan would inevitably start a war with the west as a result of pressures within the peculiar structures and strata of Japanese society.

"Seventy-eight years ago, on December 6, 1941, the United States was at peace with world.

Right away, the link lost credibility.

Do you want to hear me sing along with Woody Guthrie "The sinking of the Reuben James"?
No, I didn't think so.
Woody had painted on his guitar "This kills Fascists". There was a substantial amount of Americans who thought our entering the war was inevitable.

Did MI6 maneuver the Germans into bombing Pearl Harbor? (Oh? That was the Japanese?)
Who else welcomed Pearl Harbor besides Winston Churchill?
Stalin, because that removed a threat in his Far East.
Hitler, because it made the Americans have to fight on 2 fronts. Let's save his declaration of war for another thread, shall we? 🙄

Was the BSC behind the U.S. Naval Expansion Act of 1938, which expanded the U.S. Navy and initiated the Essex class carrier program, or the Two Ocean Navy Act of 1940?

Was the BSC behind the U.S. decision to create the Hawaiian Naval Detachment in September of 1939, or the process to relocate the U.S. Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor started in April of 1940?

Was the BSC behind Roosevelt's efforts in 1939 to modify U.S. neutrality acts to permit cash and carry arms sales to France and the U.K.?

Was the BSC behind the Fed's June 1939 report advocating aid to China?

Was the BSC behind the decision of the Republican Party in the summer of 1940, all of whom were isolationists, in favor of a candidate who openly favored aid to the Allies?

Last line seems to be missing some info. It should read "Was the BSC behind the decision of the Republican Party in the summer of 1940 to reject its three frontrunners, all of whom were isolationists, in favor of a candidate who openly favored aid to the Allies?

Regarding Japan.
I've read a few hare brained "what if" scenarios where the Japanese went after all the European colonies in Asia and left the Americans alone. So no Pearl Harbor, no invasion of the Philippines, no Wake Island, etc.
Does anyone honestly think that Japan could even consider leaving a powerful America in its rear while they went off merrily snapping up European colonies?
Did they think that the Yanks would abandon fellow White people while they gobbled up everything?
The Japanese were every bit as racist as everyone else, and thought we would be a speed bump pushover. Why not grab the Philippines too, while they were at it?

This was not the result of a sinister British plan.

Thanks

Armand

Well, well. there was me thinking all along it was just the US desire to crush Japan as a potential economic rival in the Pacific that lead Roosevelt to do everything he could to push them into war short of bombing them!

The occupation of French Indochina in September, 1940 didn't trigger American intervention. The British asked the USG to move the fleet from Pearl Harbor to Singapore, and the US declined that request. The Allies had detected some of the naval movements associated with the Southern Operation prior to Pearl Harbor, and there was considerable agonizing over how the US would respond if the Philippines weren't attacked. In the absence of a direct attack, there was considerable concern about whether the public would support American intervention to save European colonies in Asia.

The Japanese solved that problem for them.