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"Books on 17th-18th c. ship cannon?" Topic


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Zephyr127 Oct 2024 3:13 p.m. PST

Trying to find some good historical sources on ship cannon throughout the world (16th c. is good too ;-)
My gooogle-fu is weak (or their AI search engine is thwarting me) so any help is appreciated. Thanks!

khanscom27 Oct 2024 6:52 p.m. PST

"Galleons and Galleys" by John F. Guilmartin, Jr. might have something of use.

khanscom27 Oct 2024 6:55 p.m. PST

"Sovereigns of the Seas" by Angus Konstam has a few tables describing 16C. cannons.

JAFD2628 Oct 2024 8:06 a.m. PST

Salutations !

Peter Padfield's _Guns at Sea_ is a good general history.

Howard Chapelle's _History of the American Sailing Navy_ has good material on the latter half of the 1700's

Brian Lavery's _Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War_

Spencer Tucker. _Arming the Fleet, USN Ordnance in the Muzzle-loading Era_

and, if you can find a copy, the 2006 reprint of the 1815 edition of _Falconer's Dictionary of the Marine_

Hope these suggestions are helpful.

Dennis28 Oct 2024 12:29 p.m. PST

I love topics like this; no matter how complete I think my library is, without fail I find something new to me. In this case it was Lavery's book on arming and fitting ships of war.

As for the original question; so far as I know, there is no complete and authoritative technical guide to naval armament in the black power era, so you will have to find mostly bits and pieces here and there. There just might be a university dissertation on the topic, but here again I am not aware of one-if you have access to university databases for theses and dissertations you might find something useful-I have a few technical articles on gunpowder development throughout the world I've found that way. Anyway, we might be able to provide more focused guidance if you could tell us what you want to know about black powder naval guns. Are you most interested, for example, in cannon development, manufacturing, or in what armament was carried by which ships?

The latter, for example, can probably best be answered by books about specific naval engagements. Skaggs and Altoff's "A Signal Victory, The Lake Erie Campaign 1812-1813," for example, has an appendix listing the British armament at the battle. And the armament carried by the various ships of the Napoleonic wars can mostly be found in various books about the navies, navall wars or the battles in those wars. So, for example, Lavery's "Nelson's Navy," and Blake and Lawrence's "The Illustrated Companion to Nelson's Navy" have useful information about the guns carried by various classes of ships

BTW, before I forget, a google books pdf copy of the 1815 edition of "Falconer's Dictionary of the Marine," but the original and not the 2006-reprint, can be found at:

link

Pdf or kindle copies of the original 18th century publication of Falconer's can be found on the internet archive and at Gutenberg.

As for 18th century navies, Jack Coggins' "Ships and Seamen of the American Revolution" has some interesting details and drawings of AWI naval guns (Coggins was a graphic artist and friend of Fletcher Pratt who played in Pratt's 1940s naval war games, so there's a wargaming connection there).

As for earlier periods, John Guilmartin's "Gunpowder and Galleys" has lots of information about Renaissance naval warfare, including info about the guns. Bert Hall's "Weapons and Warfare in Renaissance Europe" is mostly concerned with land warfare, but it has detailed information about technological development including gunpowder manufacturing.

John Norris's "Gunpowder Artillery 1600-1700" is mostly concerned with land warfare, but it has a few bits on naval artillery of the period.

BTW, it would probably be worth your while to thumb through the bibliography of any book you find on period naval warfare as that is probably the best way to get a lead on older books on the topic.

As for more distantly related possibilities, Carlo Cipolla's "Guns, Sails and Empires, Technological Innovations and the Early Phases of European Expansion" is pretty much as described by the title.

A very interesting, but hard-to-find, article about 18th Century Spanish Navy acquisition of cannon is Agustin Gonzalez Enciso's "Buying cannons outside: when, why, how many? The supplying of foreign iron cannons for the Spanish Navy in the eighteenth century," a symposium paper reprinted in "The Contractor State and Its Implications, 1659-1815." Most of the rest of the book has pretty much nothing to do with the op's topic, but the articles are interesting if generally somewhat unusual as should be expected from the products of modern scholarship and a symposium on the state as contractor for military goods and services.

So there's a start; if you can give us a more detailed idea of what you are looking for perhaps we can add to the list.

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP28 Oct 2024 2:39 p.m. PST

"Galleons and Galleys" by John F. Guilmartin, Jr. might have something of use.
This book was more about the tactical, strategic, and logistical developments in 16th C. naval power. It's a good overview, but very light on technological details.

Guilmartin's book Gunpowder and Galleys has a much deeper dive on 16th C. artillery and its tactical uses and applications, and a lot of that info is applicable all the way through the 1650s. Unfortunately, this book is long out of print and not (yet?) an ebook, so it's expensive.

At the bottom of John F. Guilmartin's old Angelfire web page are some essays he wrote, some of which eventually got expanded into chapters of Gunpowder and Galleys, so you can get most of the same information in html pages. There is also some information not included in published books, like this military analysis of the guns found aboard the wreck of the Portuguese galleon Santíssimo Sacramento, which sunk off the coast of Brazil in 1668. That is smack dab in the middle of the OP timeframe.

Zephyr128 Oct 2024 9:06 p.m. PST

Thanks, all! I'm mainly looking for illustrations of the various carriages & guns. I'm working up the ambition to sculpt a range (most likely in 15mm), so the more variety, the better. ;-) Besides, I love history & research (that's usually the fun part… ;-)

Dennis28 Oct 2024 11:52 p.m. PST

Zeph:

I've some bits and bobs for you; others may be able to provide more.

Guilmartin's book ("Gunpowder and Galleys") has photos of galley models showing the mounts for fixed cannon and swivels for 16th century naval guns. His book also has illustrations of the main gun types with the lengths shown by an included scale. Angus Konstam's book "Lepanto 1571" also has some photos and drawings of period naval guns.

Coggins' "Ships and Seamen of the American Revolution" has a chapter on Naval Ordinance with drawings of cannon and carriages, unfortunately not completely dimensioned, albeit he includes a table with lengths for the various barrel lengths.

Blake and Lawrence's "The Illustrated Companion to Nelson's Navy" has illustrations of guns and carriages with some basic information on lengths of cannon for the British guns. Brian Lavery's "Nelson's Navy" also has some basic information on guns and carriages including a few sketches of them. And there are lots of other books about the ships and equipment during the Napoleonic wars that should include similar information.

A detailed source for info about naval gun carriages after the time covered by Guilmartin's book is Katrina Bunyard's 2019 Master's thesis for her degree from East Carolina University: "The Development of the Truck Gun Carriage: History, Archaeology and Design." The thesis includes numerous photos, illustrations, and descriptions of period gun carriages with some specifics on sizes. The thesis can be found here:

link

The bibliography of Bunyard's thesis should provide some additional sources for you to look at. Books and museum information on the salvaged vessels like the Mary Rose and others may also be a source of more detailed information.

I'll keep an eye on this thread to see what other information the others can come up with….

johannes5529 Oct 2024 5:32 a.m. PST

PDF link

Its a ebook of dutch guns in dutch + english and an official publication by the dutch cultural inheritance organisation. Maybe something for you in it

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP29 Oct 2024 8:55 p.m. PST

When it comes to artillery, my "go-to" reference is everything by Dr. Stephen Summerfield! If I understand what you are looking for (Naval Guns), check this one out:

link

Hope that helps!

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP29 Oct 2024 9:01 p.m. PST

Here is another great source circa 16th Century Naval.

link

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