"Regimental Colours pre-1700" Topic

I'm trying to understand regimental colours in the English and Scottish regiments in the late 17th century.

From what I understand around 1700 William III implemented regulations limiting regimental colours to 2-3 with the King's (or Queen's) colour and a regimental colour.

Prior to this, it seems each company had it's own colour and the first company carried the Colonel's colour. In this arrangement, I'm assuming the Colonel's colours would be to the right of other company colours?

If a regiment also carried a national flag (like the Satire or St George's cross), would this still be situated to the left of the Colonel's colours?

I ask all this because I'm trying to figure out how to arrange flags on my bases for my Williamite and Jacobite armies of the 1680s. Thanks.

Deleted. Misread "17th century" as "1700's". Obviously I need me morning cuppa before I read the boards….

PAR, I had a look through some references and all I found is that each company had its own flag and it was implied (not stated) that they remained with the companies, rather than being grouped in a colour party around the CO. Hopefully someone who knows will respond. Some of the British flags which were captured by the French were illustrated in Les Triomphes de Louis XIV dit le Grand, roy de France et de Navarre représentés par les Drapeaux, Guidons er Etendarts. The book can be freely downloaded at link

The flags aren't identified, but the book has at least two plates showing Union Flags, and others showing the St. George cross.

What an interesting book! Many thanks for linking to it.

Thanks Dal,much appreciated! Your findings are consistent with what I have read thus far. Color protocol seems consistent with that if the ECW period. It seems at this time, the Colonel's color would likely be to the right of any other colors.

Thanks, Dal. I have a copy of "Trophies" that I picked up at the gift shop at Le Invalids years ago but my French is lousy. Will try to run this thru Google translate.

You are a prince among we amateur historians, Mr. Gavan!

"Will try to run this thru Google translate."

You might have a better result with Deep Translate, another free alternative. On average it is more accurate and it gives you options.

G'day.

@Whirlwind and Dye4minis. I'm glad you find it useful. That's a very good site and there's a few gems available. link will get you to Louis XV's trophies and Drapeaux de l'Infanterie tant françoise qu'étrangère au service de la France. En l'année 1721, among others.

my French is lousy

I know what you mean, Tom. Being monolingual can be a pain at times. Especially when Fraktur font is involved.

@PAR, I know next to nothing on the period, so hopefully someone who does will chime in, but I think you're right about the colonel's flag getting precedence. After all, he owned the regiment in those days, not the King.

@Flanker, thanks for the tip and I'll give that a go. Google wilts when you show it Fraktur and older French cursive. (Why print using a cursive script?)

PS

I picked up at the gift shop at Le Invalids years ago

Lucky, lucky…. When I was there in 2019 not only had they closed the Louis XIV to Napoleon III exhibition hall, their book section in the gift shop was very sparsely populated. And Le Livre chez Vous had closed their Paris office.

I found this on the Warlord Games website regarding the ECW, "Scottish regiment standards were often based on the saltire of St Andrew in various colours, with the companies denoted by symbols or numerals in the centre. Colonel's colours, in contrast to their plain English counterparts, usually carried a heraldic device."

I had a browse through some ECW flags on the net, mate. It looks like the colonel's colours may generally have been a solid colour, with a St George's cross in the first canton. However, some of the flags captured in the 9YW and WSS were quite ornate:

link

(Possibly a guards colour?)

link

(A member of the royal family's regiment?)

I did find this in Flags of our Fighting Army, another downloadable volume (about $9 USD) at link

In 1661, under the date of February 13th, what was
probably the first royal warrant to control regimental
colours, was issued by the Earl of Sandwich, Master of
the Great Wardrobe. It ran :
" Our Will and pleasure is, and we do hereby require
you forthwith to cause to be made and provided, twelve
colours or ensigns for our Regiment of Foot Guards,
of white and red taffeta, of the usual largeness, with
stands, heads, and tassels, each of which to have such
distinctions of some of our Royal Badges, painted in
oil, as our trusty and well-beloved servant, Sir Edward
Walker, Knight, Garter Principal King-at-Arms, shall
direct."
This warrant is of much interest ; it tells us that the
early standards were painted and not embroidered ;
that they were made of white or red material white
was a sign of superiority, whilst red pointed to extravagance,
as it was more costly than blue, yellow, etc. ;
and it told us that the Guards were to display the Royal
badges, which they do to this day. (All these badges are
dealt with in a separate chapter.)
And

From the end of the reign of James II. to 1707, when
England and Scotland formed a legislative union, we
can trace but little in the progress of military colours.
The Union, however, came and left a very clear impress
on the banners of the time. Wherever the red cross of
St. George had been used, it was modified with the white
cross of St. Andrew, together with its distinctive blue
triangular fields. As a rule, the authorities favoured
the use of small crosses, placed in the upper canton,
rather than large ones covering the whole fabric, for this
enabled a fairly big portion of the flag to be used for
displaying the arms of each particular military unit.
A typical example of this period is shown in Fig. 5.
Here we have the colonel's colour of General Grove's
Regiment, afterwards the 10th Foot (now the Lincolnshire
Regiment). The talbot, the motto, and the ermine
representations were all features in the crest borne by
General Grove. The date of this flag is 1726.

Dal, thanks again! Invaluable information. I feel like I have a much better grasp of the policy regarding colors for this somewhat murky period.