"Frontage and firepower queries" Topic

Hello
Having gone through quite a few books without much success, I would be grateful for any information that the knowledgeable folk here can give me on the following issues. I'm not looking for the drill book ideal, but rather the reality (although, of course, that's harder to find). I'm certainly not expecting precise answers.

1. How many ranks deep would the average infantry regiment be? Would the number of ranks differ between the pike and musketeer components (I've seen images of the pike in a deeper block, but don't know if that's right)? I've seen figures ranging from 6 to 10 ranks. My suspicion is that the number of ranks probably declined as the war went on, particularly for under strength units, but what would be a good average to work with?

2. What frontage should I allow for each file of pikemen or musketeers? Perhaps more usefully, what would be the frontage of 10 files?

3. Would commanded shot have deployed in the same depth as an infantry regiment? What about dismounted dragoons? As commanded shot appear to have often been seconded from an infantry regiment, I imagine that they would be more likely than dismounted dragoons to fight in relatively close order, but, presumably that would be mission and terrain dependent. I imagine that dismounted dragoons would be more likely to fight in a dense skirmish line, but I'm happy to be told otherwise.

4. I assume that dragoons were generally armed with flintlocks, but, again, please tell me if that's wrong. If they were flintlocks, would they be the same as those used by (some) of the ordinary infantry or more like carbines. Would you give dismounted dragoons (and commanded shot) the same firing factors as ordinary infantry? In our games so far, we've used the same factors, but dismounted dragoons seem to be too deadly (as every guy has a gun).

Thank you

You need to specify which armies and which time period you are referring to, otherwise the answer is very much going to be: "it depends…"

Thank you. I am trying to come up with generic frontage figures that I can use across the ECW, so I guess that I am really looking for averages. I vary the proportions of pike and shot across the wars, but I can't see how I can really vary the frontages: each base is 25mm x 20 mm and I'm kind of stuck with that. It is really a question of what each base represents and how I reconcile that with a ground scale.

Quick answers:
1 pike and shot would be the same depth
4 generally dragoons were not armed with fire locks. Most were armed with short matchlock muskets. Not all would be able to fire as some were holding the horses (theoretical strength of 10 fighting men, and an 11th to hold the horses). Lots more on dragoons link

Quick answer continued…
1 depends. Firstly forget all you know about the word 'regiment'. A regiment was an administrative body, mostly. Companies often fought alone in smaller engagements. Which is why in regimental histories they are in more than one place at the same time. Regimental strength was theoretically about 900-1000 men. The London Trained Bands were fairly close to this figure for most of the time (auxiliaries a different matter).

Regimental 'full strength' was only really fielded in the handful of set pieces battles (think Edgehill, Marston Moor and Naseby). If a RoF was understrength they were brigaded with another understrength RoF to get close to the 'ideal'.

Musketeers are supposed to have 3 feet between one another, pikemen similar (although reenactors say that they usually need a bit more than that).

Again, you might help would be answerers if you were able to say what sort of 'battles' you'd like to fight – one of the big 3 style set piece battles, or the more common smaller scale engagements (up to about 1000 men a side (real numbers))

3. Commanded shot. There are a number of units that were raised, who were just commanded shot. Vast majority were raised for garrison duties; particularly Welsh Royalist units. Other commanded shot units were raised for specific jobs e.g. Firelock artillery guards (Essex's Army), several of the princes had commanded shot units (status symbol?).

Surprisingly commanded shot seconded from RoF is a bit of a Wargamer-fact™,in other words it didn't happen very often. On the very few occasions they were set up, they were given very specific tasks, eg garrison duties, protecting a retreat etc.

In a nutshell, your toys do whatever you want with them.

If you want a reading list, try Venn's martial handbooks, the Osprey P&S Tactics is pretty good too.

Thank you KeepYourPowderDry, that is helpful. I am guessing that the "short matchlock muskets" of dismounted dragoons would likely have been less effective than the standard muskets.

My interest is in the proper battles, rather than skirmishes.

I am still interested to receive any information on numbers of ranks of infantry regiments and formations/deployment of commanded shot and dismounted dragoons, as per my original post.

Thank you.

Musketeers are supposed to have 3 feet between one another, pikemen similar (although reenactors say that they usually need a bit more than that).

Possibly related to modern renactors generally being bigger than 17C people (and I don't primarily mean fatter – they'll on average be taller, with broader shoulders and longer arms).

Strangely the 'people were shorter in those days' is a myth. Slimmer yes, but shorter no. 1640s iirc average height for men was pretty much the same as it is now.

So the next time you visit a castle and take the guided tour, you can correct them by saying doors were smaller (let less heat out).

Pike reenactors I know say it is more to do with manoeuvring the pikes than anything else

In Henry Hexham's The Priniples of the Art Militarie published in 1637, he gives 3 distances: Open, Order, and Close.

Open appears only to be used for training, "Order" is supposed to be 3 foot per man, as mentioned above, and Hexham says:

"The second distance, or your Order is, when your men stand three foot removed on from an other both in Ranke and File, and this order is to be used when they are embattled, or march in the face of an Enemy, or when they come to stand, or when you will wheele…"

He mentions close order of 1.5 per man in file and 3 foot between ranks, but specifies:

"…yet this is for the pikes onely, and must never be used, but when you will stand firme to receive the charge of an Enemy. The muskettiers msu never be closer, then the second distance of three foote in square, because they are to have free use of their armes."

Strangely the 'people were shorter in those days' is a myth.

That is not exactly accurate. The growing urbanization in the 17th and especially 18th and 19th centuries had a deleterious impact on the overall health of the lower classes and led to malnutrition and smaller physical sizes. It is certainly true that the Saxons who lived in the 11th century were roughly the same size as modern English.