"Did Data kill himself and, if so why?" Topic

At the end of nemesis did Data kill himself?

Maybe I missed something?

In the voyage home, an old Klingon ship managed to transport the chick when she jumped into Kirk's transporter beam.

So, why couldn't a modern flagship of the federation?

Data only needed to give Picard a hug and away they go.

Either this is a case of poor research, or there was something I missed.

I believe there was a transporter issue, hence the device Data pinned to Picard. Maybe that's it?

Still seems strange when said old Klingon ship can easily beam over two huge whales and all their water.

PS

Ok. And this.

What is data?

A robot.

So why couldn't he/Picard simply remove his head for Picard to take with him, if mass was an issue?

Data's head, and B4s sat in dirt for very long times, in nemesis and in… the one with Samuel Clemons.

I don't think Data would have missed that option.

I know there are gafs abound in trek, but, perhaps, none as important to a main character.

The limits of technology are determined by plot requirements.

It can do a b or c
unless it cant.

I prefer to think of Next Generation and all its spawn as a bad dream of Captain Kirk's. Dreams don't have to be internally consistent, and some day Kirk will wake up and continue on the last two years of his five year mission.

All sorts of contradictions – the away team are trapped on a hostile planet surface when the transporters fail. How will they survive? What can the Enterprise crew do?

Well, they could go down in a shuttle and pick them up…but shuttles don't turn up for another half-dozen episodes or more….

You can overthink these things…

Keep repeating to yourself, It's only a TV show. It is only a TV show.

HERESY! Ever Thermian knows they are historical documentaries!

"Ok. And this.

What is data?

A robot."

A robot BODY.

Inhabited by a DALEK.

(Data was later killed by the thirtieth Doctor Who. See that season for the full story line… ;-)

Yeah, and The Borg are just cybermen in cyberpunk costumes

"some day Kirk will wake up and continue on the last two years of his five year mission"

Which Kirk? James T Kirk or James R Kirk?

*shuttles don't turn up for another half-dozen episodes"

Perhaps they were bring repaired, or they just hadn't picked them up yet.

"You can overthink these things…"

Not when its about the death of a main character.

"It is only a TV show."

No it's people's careers, they should do better.

Maybe spiner just wanted out? Didn't care how. I think he felt he was getting too old.

"historical documentaries"

Actually the opposite. They are the basis for a lot of real world technology and associated things.

Too many to list:

A pilot helped Shatner out with a plane for a doco, because star trek got him into the industry.

Apparently the government looked at the enterprise bridge to design better military spaces.

A guy basically cried in James Doohan's arms when they met. I believe the guy was an engineer? Who got into it because of trek.

Obviously all the transporter stuff is mostly know because of the show.

So on and on…

"thirtieth Doctor Who. See that season for the full story line…"

Yeah, nice try.

"The Borg are just cybermen in cyberpunk costumes"

More likely based on US shows like six million dollar man and the 86 film eliminators, which actually stared Denise Crosby from TNG. I'm sure the shows staff would have been well aware of that film for 89s Q Who, and the Borgs first appearance.

And yes I see the pun.

But I think there is a lot of evidence to say they didn't rip off the Cybermen.

"Maybe spiner just wanted out? Didn't care how. I think he felt he was getting too old."

He's been typecast, that's kind of an acting career-killer… ;-)

But quite the opposite for his convention career.

Spiner definitely wanted out, recalling interviews from the time (no, I don't have references!)

Lots of people change their minds as they age / find conventions are a nice money spinner for them.

Classic case – NImmoy's two books "I am not Spock" and the much later "I am Spock".

Nimoy didn't want to be in the motion picture at first.

I don't think Spiner wanted out of the trek family, he just thought Data shouldn't look old. Probably felt the character was done.

Are y'all kidding? There's not an actor on the planet who doesn't dream of getting to play an awesome death scene. Sean Bean has made a career of it (nobody dies on screen better than Sean Bean).
That's why Han got snuffed in SW Ep 7– because Harrison Ford wanted a death scene (he tried to get Lucas to do it in V and VI, but Lucas wisely said no).
Nimoy wanted a death scene (his was actually good, one of the best on film).
Shatner did too. (His sucked, not because of him, just because the cause was so lame.)

Your average actor doesn't give a patoot's toot for fan feelings or show continuity, or even emotional integrity with the story or theme or genre, if he can only have the chance to emote his character's passing on the silver screen!

That's why the number one rule of directing a film should be "never give in to an actor's death whim."

I note that Spiner came back for Picard. If he was concerned about Data looking old, he was right.

James T Kirk, H Man. James R Kirk was just proof that another of Rodenberry's mad gods was fallible, and they always are.

"Your average actor doesn't give a patoot's toot for fan feelings or show continuity, or even emotional integrity with the story or theme or genre,"

We're talking about trek core cast, certainly not your average actor.

"James R Kirk was just proof that another of Rodenberry's mad gods was fallible,"

Also proof Kirk's living in the same dream.

I feel Pike maybe the only person who can truly wake up.

We're talking about trek core cast, certainly not your average actor.

bit mean….they weren't all below average. Patrick Stewart was RSC don't forget.

"Average" not meaning either talent or training, just numbers— ask any actor (great, good, bad or indifferent) if they think their character should die on screen, and at least half of them will think it's an awesome idea. And most of those will have already proposed it. If you've ever seen a TV show or film series where a lead character (particularly a central character) dies dramatically, odds are that the actor suggested or even demanded the death, especially when there's no source material behind the occurrence.

I will counterpoint with an actor I knew who was upset that his character was killed in the first episode of what went on to be a long running TV series.

It was a "cop show" and he'd been led to believe that he'd be one of the regular group around the central character. Then they had a rethink and thought that killing a friend of the central character would give the episode a grittier edge. He wasn't too pleased to lose a regular pay check.

So maybe it also links in to how long the actor has been playing the part.

Michael Biehn.

(I believe that's called a mic drop)

But I'll go on.

Possibly one of the most annoyed actors for being killed off.

No actual death scene though.

It depends on the job and the actor.

Patrick Stewart thought it was just the pilot. As, I believe, did McFadden, hence using a different name, so no one would recognise her.

Some, especially young actors hope for a long run on a show.

Then, like Spiner, are happy to move on after a decade.

Killing off the character usually means they are the only person to play the character and give them a beginning, middle and end.

? Because he objected to Hicks being killed off? Dude, the guy had been promised the hero role as the replacement for Ripley. Big bucks lost. Big lead name on the marquee gone. Nobody even remembers his name. (I had to look him up.) Besides which, I never said "all actors."
Pick the mic back up, dude. It missed the floor.

Don't be sore.

I'd say more actors are upset/disappointed by their character being killed off than those wanting it.

Bit parts or one off movies may differ, but deaths would usually in the script/description they read before agreeing to the role anyway. Or the roles small, so it's no problem either way.

They did the right thing in Alen 3. And it's the stronger sequel for it.

Aliens is cool, but its just Alien watered down.

It's funny how a lot of people prefer the mass forces of aliens over the corridor horror of alien 3, for a sequel to a corridor horror like Alien.

Then, probably same people, don't like the corridor horror of hero of the federation, for a mass forces film like starship troopers.

Odd.

Aliens certainly played into the typical sequel roll, amping up the coolness, adding a kid, having more, so on, like T2, the road warrior, so on.

Biehn had to go, and the kid too.

Like at the end of T2, the robot friend and the father figure die. Then jump to Cameron's third in the trilogy, dark fate, the kid gets it too.

Just like Bishop, Hicks, and newt.

Weird, but true.

But, of course it runs deeper then that.

I'd be thinking father son and holy spirit.

Ripley and Sarah both have miraculous birth of those kids too, film wise.

OMG – we agree on something

I prefer Alien 3 to Aliens. Because it is truer to the original concept of an intelligent hunter. I can't believe how dumb the creatures are in Aliens. Also Alien 3 has (IMHO) a great cast.

Not sore. Amused.

Argumentative.

Yet still amused.

Simple minds.

Terrible band.

One good song.

Can't think what that might be … Alive & kicking…maybe…but one bearable song does not a good band make…

Nor two front men.