"Russian Army invading US in 1860's - 13mm scale conversions" Topic

Project – Building a Russian army to re-take Russia's US colonies on the Western US seaboard while the Civil War is raging – by converting various Napoleonic figures (well, why not?).

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Very cool. And why not is always a good reason in wargaming!

Interesting. New opponents for my 54mm Imperial Russian and Union ACW collections.

I agree. "Why not?" explains most of my wargaming.

Hogwash! Totally implausible! Logistically impossible! I wanna play!

The Russians are going to need a supply port, and the US isn't going to give up California without a big fight, which means STEAMSHIP FIGHTS!!!! Implausible "what if" battles were the genesis of naval gaming. I'd volunteer to run a naval campaign for you, but I live in the contested area (California), so you'll have to source a GM locally. You can get most USN warships from any maker of ACW naval miniatures (Langton, Thoroughbred, Peter Pig, Bay Area Yards, others), but if you want to include the steam frigates or SOLs the Russians still had in service, you'll have to go to Red Eagle Miniatures and 1/1250 scale. You can flesh that out with auxiliaries from Brown Water Navy Miniatures run by our very own MG Lawson. Also keep an eye on Spithead Miniatures (Facebook only) for the really oddball niche steamer collections.

The Siege of San Francisco could be a fun mini-campaign. The Presidio was a serious fortification, and the entrance to the Golden Gate was well-guarded, making it just about impregnable to small colonial-sized forces, but after a few years of inland campaigning and a build-up of naval forces, the Russians might have the force to attempt it.

This is very strange given that Russia supported the Union during the ACW. Even sending fleets to San Francisco and New York. The British were more worried about the Russians taking British Columbia.

Include a unit of Thai War Elephants for the Union?

It's terrible alternate history.

It's a great excuse to play Warlord Epic Napoleonics against Warlord Epic ACW.

Thai War Elephants are only allowed if you put mountain guns on the Howdahs :D

The bodging of Epic Napoleonic Prussians is just an extra alt history twist :D – but I just had to do it as (at that scale) it is actually feasible. (TBH looking at scales I reckon smaller 15mm are very easy to match too, but what's the fun in that)

Oddly enough, the more I read the more I think is not *that* bad alt history (also, Russian "uniform" in the 1860's seems to be a total mish-mash).

Of course, taking San Fran as Step 2 is tricky (Step 1 is taking British Columbia :D ), but after that it'll all be plain sailing, what could go wrong… (but yes the main reason is to play 1860's Russians against ACW troops :D)

The Russians can of course also interfere in Europe, fight Turks and play the Great Game….

PS I never thought of Steamship fights. That's a must have. Sadly my ironclads are all pre-Dread era

Also, I have a friend who has 54mm ACW – I have relayed the good news about another opponent :D

"This is very strange given that Russia supported the Union during the ACW. Even sending fleets to San Francisco and New York."

The Russian support was a matter of convenience, they sent those fleets to the US because there was a war scare and they wanted their fleets out of danger. Swinging to being anti-Union wouldn't be a hard twist.

PS I never thought of Steamship fights. That's a must have. Sadly my ironclads are all pre-Dread era

I always think of the naval campaign first. It may be a sickness…

The USN and Russia didn't have true ocean-going ironclads in this era, that could make it all the way around the Horn or the Straits of Magellan to the Pacific coast of North America. (The New Ironsides was the closest, and was not a very good sailor.) The US and Russia would have fought a naval war on the Pacific coast with wooden steam warships using shell guns. Most likely frigates, sloops, corvettes, and gunboats, but if the war lasted long enough or grew big enough, a small battlefleet of 2-deckers might have appeared. As a wargamer, I would of course find any excuse to get 2-decker steam-powered SOLs into the fray. That's just too much fun to be bothered by the unlikelihood. Besides, the USN mothballed its remaining 2-deckers for the ACW because they were useless under the circumstances; a war with Russia for California could be an excuse to put them back in service without disrupting the Anaconda Plan.

FWIW, the British built only ocean-going broadside ironclads until 1870, and had 4 of them by 1862 and over a dozen by 1865, which is a great reason the Russians should leave British Columbia alone. Just one of these ironclads based in the BC area would have guaranteed the complete destruction of any Russian wooden fleet operating on the West Coast.

- Ix

That is very interesting re the naval stuff. There is quite a big story here.

By the way, I started this trread to get model conversion thoughts. But when I started this project I had asked another question on TMP about the army structure of the Russian force used to invade teh US.

Both these threads however have veered into bigger military and the geopolitical situation at he time and some of the what-if aspects. I have found it absolutely fascinating, some of y'all may also find the other thread interesting, it's over here:

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The USS Comanche, a Passaic class monitor, was shipped in parts to San Francisco and reassembled in 1863. So there could be one ironclad.

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This also opens a really cool 'what if'. Imagine the ship carrying the Comanche was captured in the Atlantic by the Alabama! Run the blockade and you could have a monitor in a southern port. :-)

Punch Cartoon Tsar Nicholas and Abe

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British view of Southern secession :D

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