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"Why are they called 'Black' Orcs?" Topic


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718 hits since 21 Aug 2024
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian21 Aug 2024 9:48 a.m. PST

I assume it's from Tolkien, but why black?

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2024 10:06 a.m. PST

"Black" in Tolkien is short for "closely allied with Sauron or Morgoth". So the orcs may or may not be black in color (in which case they would actually be literal black, not a very dark shade of brown), but they are elite troops of destruction. This is similar to the "Black Numenoreans" who are not of dark colored skin tones, but are practitioners of vile and evil sorceries, allies of Sauron and rejectors of the Valar and Illuvator/Eru— Satan worshipers, in effect.
In Tolkien's parlance it's got nothing to do with race— it has to do with siding fully with evil.

Wackmole921 Aug 2024 10:09 a.m. PST

Several answers but I like Morgoth created many evil creatures of different shapes, "yet the Orcs were not made until he had looked upon the Elves, and he made them in mockery of the Children of Ilúvatar . Light verse darkness same as Black Númenorian.

citizen sade21 Aug 2024 10:21 a.m. PST

While Tolkien's Black Speech using Orcs are described as sallow-skinned, I think Black Orcs are more of a Games Workshop Warhammer thing. They borrowed heavily from Tolkien (and others) and I don't think it's a great leap to get from his Orcs to their big, bad, mean Black Orcs. Particularly when you think of all the negative old words associated with that colour e.g. black-hearted, blackguard etc.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2024 11:08 a.m. PST

I think sade's right. But remember along with black-hearted and blackguard there are black Irish and Black Tom Fairfax. In a place with very little contact with Africa, you don't have to be very dark-complected to be "black."

GW grew up--to the extend they HAVE grown up--in a very different time than Tolkien. And if there's one thing the Evil Empire has never been accused of, it's subtlety.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2024 12:17 p.m. PST

Always assumed that Tolkien either used it to represent the Celtic mythology for the Occult

Louis XIV Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2024 5:12 p.m. PST

Black Orcs were the toughest GW Orc. They were originally black skinned then went very dark green.

TimePortal21 Aug 2024 6:19 p.m. PST

I assume Orc names are clan or tribal names. As such they fought under the banner representing the name.

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2024 6:39 p.m. PST

From "The Return of the King", Appendix A, section (iv), para 5 of "The Stewards" subchapter:

"In the last years of Denethor I (Eumelus note – this would be 466 years before Bilbo took the ring from Gollum) the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Oslgilath."

From "The Fellowship of the Ring", Chapter 5 "The Bridge of Khazad-Dum":
"But even as they retreated… a huge orc-chieftain, almost man-high, clad in black mail from head to foot, leaped into the chamber; behind him his followers clustered in the doorway. His broad flat face was swart, his eyes were like coals, and his tongue was red; he wielded a great spear." (nb it is this orc-chieftain, almost certainly a "black uruk" from Mordor, and in the book it is he who stabs Frodo rather than the cave troll as in the movie.)

Takeways: (1) "Black" does not seem to necessarily literally mean coal-black but rather dark ("swart") in color and possibly outfitted in sombre kit; and (2) the use of the term "uruks" to describe large powerful warrior-orcs long predates Sauruman's cross-bred Isengard Uruk-Hai.

SBminisguy22 Aug 2024 11:27 a.m. PST

Tolkien's use of "Black" refers to demeanor and behavior, as in the historical figure of "The Black Prince."

Edward of Woodstock (15 June 1330 – 8 June 1376), was known to history as the Black Prince, was the eldest son and heir apparent of King Edward III of England. He died before his father and so his son, Richard II, succeeded to the throne instead. Edward nevertheless earned distinction as one of the most successful English commanders during the Hundred Years' War, being regarded by his English contemporaries as a model of chivalry and one of the greatest knights of his age and was named "The Black Prince" for his ferocious and brutal warfare against the French during the 100 Years War.

HMS Exeter22 Aug 2024 7:49 p.m. PST

A fell, man shaped, creature. Too large to be mistaken for a goblin or lesser orc. A "Black Orc" is familiar with the concept of "a menu." Some can even spell the word

aedwards23 Aug 2024 7:41 a.m. PST

I thought in old WFB parlance, orc skin darkened as they grew older, thus the black orcs were the biggest/oldest/meanest of the bunch because they were good enough to live that long.

Of course that is a 20+ year old memory, I'm sure if I am accurate it was retconned at some point after they decided 40k orks were shrooms or whatever.

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