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"Tanks on the Merderet at la Fiere" Topic


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520 hits since 18 Aug 2024
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Korvessa Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2024 5:22 p.m. PST

Specifically, the German tanks that faced the 82nd Airborne at the bridge over the Merderet at la Fiere. This is for a skirmish game, so looking more for something representative, rather than the entire outfit. In fact, I am only doing two vehicles.
I have searched quite a bit on line and looked at a few photos. I believe the vehicles are from the 100th Abteilung. Based upon one article I read with a rather in-depth analysis of the photos, it looks to be the 3rd company. Based on that I am building a Panzer III and a Hotchkiss.
I am looking to find out what kind of paint scheme they likely had and what turret numbers were used. Does anyone know?
From the photos, it looks like they were that common German dark yellow. Maybe a bit of brown sloshed on? I am familiar with the German numbering system of company-platoon-vehicle, but based on some photos I have seen, am wondering how strict they were with this? One photo looks like the Pz III number was 324, which makes no sense.

link

Anybody know?
Or am I just being too much of a "rivet counter" over this?

skirmishcampaigns18 Aug 2024 7:57 p.m. PST

I don't think there were any PzIII in the actual battle. Certainly no wrecks of any on the causeway and local area.

Korvessa Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2024 9:27 p.m. PST

According to what I have read, the tank in the immediate foreground (all you can see is a fender) is a Pz III

picture

CaptainDarling19 Aug 2024 1:19 a.m. PST

The three Tank pictured are French ones captured by the Germans. My guess is they are Renault 35s. Can't tell much about the tank in foreground can't really make out the tracks very well.
Re the 100th Pz Bn from the book, Normandy 1944: German Military Organization, Combat Power and Organizational Effectiveness: (p. 176), it was raised in April 1941 in Germany. One year later it moved to France. May 18, 1944 attached to 91st Division. Manpower strength: 664 men. List of tanks: 14 French Renault R-35; 8 French Hotchkiss (no model given); 1 French Somua; 1 French Char B-2; 1 German Panzer III. There were also 5 French light tanks with short 3.7cm guns the author believed could have been Renault FT-17s. The unit is shown as attached to the 91 LD as late as June 22, 1944. No record of the unit shows up after June 23, however it is listed as disbanded on July 1, 1944.

Martin Rapier19 Aug 2024 4:54 a.m. PST

The tanks in the photo look more H39s to me, the R35 has a different mantlet arrangement, but they both look very similar from the front.

The larger tanks in the battalion were the command vehicles, tbh I'd just paint up a couple pf H39s or R35s. I do all my French armour in brown/green hard edged disruptive over a sand base so I can use them in 1940 or 1944.

Martin Rapier20 Aug 2024 6:12 a.m. PST

Mmm, on reflection (and looking at my R35s), yes, those are R35s. The front of the hull is wider than an H39.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2024 11:19 a.m. PST

Tigers. They are Tigers.

All German tanks were Tigers (unless they were King Tigers)

But seriously, it took guts to use those late 30s French AFVs by 1944 (as also in Paris in August up against M4A2s with 75mm guns). OK for anti-partisan action, but anything else, just suicide

tonski191722 Aug 2024 4:16 a.m. PST

according to Korvessa's post above I found the following on Feldgrau.net

link

Stab Kompanie of 100. Heeres-Panzer Brigade was assigned to HG "D" in France.

Consisted of a signal platoon with

2x Befs Pz-S35(f) a French Somua Char 1935-S command versio
n
1x BefsPanzer III (SdKfz 267)
plus 1x light panzer zug with
4x Pz-H38(f) a French Hotchkiss Char 1938-H
1x Pz-S35(f) a French Somua Char 1935-S

CaptainDarling25 Aug 2024 10:15 p.m. PST

Re OP query for the Beutepanzers in use in Normandy (especially this action) I would use H39s and R35s.
In regards to camo these were repainted by the WH in a relative ‘peaceful' period with no major action on French soil so there would be time for them to get the regulation Dunkelgelb with Camouflage Colours Rotbraun and Olivgrün, I'd just use large Balkenkreuz on hull and turret sides.

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