"Stonehenge megalith came from Scotland" Topic

Monument's largest ‘bluestone' moved more than 450 miles – a discovery researchers say rewrites relationships between Neolithic populations

The Guardian: link

Well. That's amazing. I honestly hope it's true.
It gives a lot of credence to pre-historic history, if that's a thing.
History before written records? Or maybe they did write it down, but it's lost to us.

The technology to move it needs to be discovered. I hope nobody tries to claim UFOs, but that's probably inevitable. 🙄

No surprise. Everything in the heart of Britain is Scottish-written with absolutely no bias….

Maybe the *one* stone did, but the others came from Wales (they've even found the quarry for those…)

England always stealing Scottish stones!

That "one sstone" is right at the centre of Stonehenge. No surprise that it came from the centre of Neolithic culture in Britain – Orkney.

See Ness of Brodgar – nessofbrodgar.co.uk

I've been to Orkney a few times. The Neolithic & Bronze Age remains are unique. There's a very good chance that Orkney was the centre of their world & a stone from there was something special.

I read, several years ago, a paper that Orkney may have sent out "architects" to help people further south – even to what became England- build stone monuments. There's evidently a similarity in building techniques & Orkney monuments pre-date them.

Orkney is certainly lovely but remote ain't in it, so why it became a centre is a puzzle.

+1advocate – my first thought when I saw the headline.

Seems an awful long way to go for a rock…

This is a pretty interesting discovery. I wish we knew a lot more about what happened there, but even if we had a Time Machine I bet the people involved don't speak English properly so we still wouldn't know.

We watched a video about this yesterday and it was full of "people working together" and "connections" between the different parts of Britain and all I could think of was, No, it may have been taken as a trophy, it may be the result of war, not collaboration. They also said this "answers some questions about the story of Stonehenge," and I thought, No, it tells us there's even more stuff to the story that we don't know. News people are useless.

But this is a pretty cool discovery.

English wasn't to be around for many years into the future. It's just possible that they spoke a distant ancestor of Welsh; perhaps an ancestor of Irish (and therefore the future Scots Gaelic) but perhaps some completely extinct language.

"You ordered a rock from Orkney?!?"
"Well, yes. The salesman who came down was really nice. Assured me it would be ‘just the thing.'"
"We have perfectly good rocks right around here!"
"Well, yes, but they don't go with the ones from Wales, now do they?"
"Why then didn't you just order another one from Wales?!?"
"Welsh rocks are sooo last millennia. I wanted a bit more exotic pizazz."
"I don't know about ‘pizazz' but you got exotic alright— have you seen this invoice?!? How are we to live if you keep giving every seashell I earn to whatever fancy-fur sweet talking Pictish pitchman who sidles up the walk!"
(Starts to sniff) "But you said I could decorate exactly the way I wanted!"
"Yeah, but I thought it be a couple of buckets of berry juice for painting mammoths on the wall, not a major renovation of the whole blasted plain!"
(Breaks down in tears.) You don't love me anymore!"
"Now, hang on, I'm not saying that…"
"Don't I roast the mastodon rump just the way you like it?"
"Well, yes, of course, best hand with a fire I've ever known… including Mum!"
"And, and, don't I have all your best furs combed and laid out for the hunt every full moon?"
"Oh certainly, certainly— and I've always appreciated that about you, dear!"
"And all I ask in return is a few pretty rocks set up for watching the stars— a little bit of beauty and romance to brighten my dull days…"
"I, I, I never really knew you felt that way about it all…"
(Loud wailing sob)"And now you're gonna make me send it all back! And Gwynycyllyochmynth is going to say horrible things about me again at the festival, how I can't maintain the simplest astronomical rock grouping, you know how spiteful she is…"
"Oh, well, there's no doubt about that… dodged a… a… something that moves really fast and can hurt me… on that one."
"What?"
"Oh, nothing dear! It's always been you! I couldn't do without you! All I've ever wanted is for you to be happy!"
(Crying stops. Sweet tone.)"So… I can keep the rock? And we can enjoy the stars together tonight? The kids are staying at my mother's hut."
"… at your mother's hut… Oh, yes, of course we'll keep the stone. I can see now, it just completes the whole set. Perfect. Very pretty. Don't know what I was arguing about."
"Oh Byrtyryrytbllbchwythyb, you are the best!"
Fade to black… well, except for some perfectly aligned stars…

OK, Parzival, admit it. You're John Cleese, Terry Gilliam, or Eric Idle in disguise.

Well done. :-)

Languages spoken in pre-history are essentially unknowable.

Recent DNA testing shows the possibility that either the Hunter-gatherer or Anatolian farmer strata in what became Britain may have spoken a language akin to Basque or proto-Sardinian.

The third strata of population, the Yumnaya (Bell Beaker folk to you), probably spoke Indo-European language(s), maybe Brythonic. This was probably the language of all-Britain when the Romans arrived – though it is worth remembering that that Romans in Britain are closer in time to us than they are to the stone circle at Stone-henge. Keep in mind, most mega-liths in Britain are pre-Yumnaya. The stone ring on my family's island, Lewis, is about 5000 years old. The many structures on Orkney are older still. The BBF are deemed to begin arriving about 4500 years ago.

Interesting (?) side note – ancient place names in Britain are Celtic in origin but there are some that are not & may come from Britain's pre-Bell Beaker past.eg 'Humber' & 'Wey' seem to be non-Celtic.

Small islands can provide more stability and protection than large ones – allowing cultures and civilisations to develop freely of warfare, disease, famine, etc.

One thought is that China and South-East Asia was colonised by waves of peoples from the indonesian/phillipine archipelago (not the other way round).

Ditto places like Burma being colonised by mountain people from the Himalayas (Tibet, Nepal) whose kingdoms are rather like islands.

it may have been taken as a trophy, it may be the result of war

Why not orcadian culture be exported to the mainland? Why not the druidic stuff be improved/expanded and then the altar stone seized as a trophy to cement the wiltonian version of the exported culture?

Andrew Walters – even war is a connection, especially if they took a 'trophy' so far, especially such an awkward one. Possible, and I considered it myself, but I think whatever the reason for the connection it reminds us that the people of those times were very capable of massive, organised effort, especially when taking into account the low population densiity that we assume. It should not be so surprising that such effort could occur over wide distances.

I rather think the centre at Orkney was a sort of hub in the British Isles, and it was an act of devotion to get the centre stone from there to transfer the 'Magic' to the new site.

A better, and unknowable discussion might be how our ancestors from 5,000 years ago got these stones to Stonehenge. My guess is by sea…