"The irregulars in the ACW" Topic

Hello everyone,
As for the status of the troops during the ACW, we talked about the "regulars", the "Volunteers" and the "militiamen" who were practically regulars, but I believe I know that there were also real irregulars who did not always wear uniforms or am I mistaken?

Like Quantrell,etc. Yes, I believe some carried on their own war. Missouri was involved in that sort of thing.

Especially in the West there were very very irregulars – Quantrell was a great example – on the Union side there were the Missouri Red Legs – by all accounts on both sides packs of rogues and thieves

In the East, at the battle of Cloyd's Mountain, a unit of Home Guard fought along side the CSA troops.

I had a great great uncle who as recorded as saying in family verbal history ; "No lunch today. I am not going fishing. I am going to wack me some Yanks who are messing around." Apparently he was answering a home guard call. That was a McConnell side. Next month is the annual Nelson Reunion with the descendants of my Great grandparents. They had twelve children but lost two in WW2. So should be a good crowd. The McCain relatives also drop in. Lol.maybe some more good stories.

The term of the day was "partisans." John Mosby was the most famous but there were other east and west.

Probably worth making distinctions. The Home Guards and such were pretty much what is normally thought of as a militia--people with real jobs called up for very short periods of service who might or might not have uniforms. As I recall, the Richmond government clerks were called to brief service a few times, and other workers in critical industries.

There were real partisan units like John Singleton Mosby's 43rd Virginia Cavalry--under state discipline, but effectively guerillas, often passing themselves off as civilians while on military missions.

And these can shade into "bushwhackers"--bandits sometimes calling themselves partisans on the basis of commissions they may or may not have held at one point, and which certainly didn't justify their actions. Civil wars breed chaos.

But while the partisans and bushwhackers are useful in a campaign or an RPG, only the Home Guard types are likely to show up on a proper battlefield with uniformed troops of the same allegiance.

"…who did not always wear uniforms…"

Depends on your definition of Uniform. The distinction between uniforms and civilian dress became muddled as the war went on. Sometimes just a military-looking hat was enough to qualify as a uniform.

The only two Confederate partisan units I am aware of are the group led by William T. Anderson (Bloody Bill) and Quantrill's Raiders. Quantrill was at one time given the rank of Colonel by the Confederate States. Later shocked by some of the actions taken by the raiders, the CSA withdrew its support.

John S. Mosby was a partisan but certainly not like Quantrill. He was a Confederate officer scouting for Jeb Stuart and was later put in command of the 43rd Virginia Cavalry, known as Mosby's Rangers or Mosby's Raiders. He operated within the Confederate command structure.

The Confederate Government attempted to exert some control over Partisan Units. Congress passed The Partisan Ranger Act on April 21, 1862. It didn't work out so well. On February 17, 1864, the law was repealed after pressure from General Lee and others. Only two partisan ranger groups were exempt and allowed to continue to operate: Mosby's Raiders and McNeill's Rangers. Captain McNeill's command consisted of Company E of the 18th Virginia Cavalry and the 62nd Virginia Mounted Infantry.

@@rustymusket
Yes Quantrell, I've heard that name before, he must be famous.

@Frederick
Packs of rogues and thieves. And real irregular fighters for a cause?

@Major Mike
Home Guard are irregular fighters?

@TimePortal
Yes you never know.

@Shagnasty
Yes you understood me correctly, when I wrote "irregulars" I meant "partisans." John Mosby has a good reputation compared to Quantrell and others of his ilk?

@robert piepenbrink
But be careful, an irregular must fight without uniforms and if possible inside or behind enemy lines like a partisan.

@Old Contemptible
It is true that in some conflicts regulars can have the appearance of irregulars.

Let's say that irregulars – generally without military uniforms, for more discretion – would execute military operations inside or behind enemy lines on orders from distant general staff, like a partisan during WWII.

When a confederate "irregular" wears a Union uniform, rides along talking to Union troops, then takes out a revolver, shoots them and rides away--which happened--he's a guerilla, and subject to being hanged if caught. That is not "discretion:" that is violation of the laws of war, and puts real civilian noncombatants at risk. Same is true if he pretends to be a non-combatant until someone's back is turned. Mosby's people crossed both lines. There were executions, and at one period there were orders to shoot Mosby on apprehension and identification.

He had an excellent reputation--compared to Quantrill. Last time I was in Virginia, there was still a John Singleton Mosby National Guard training center. But what he did was dance on the edge of the laws of war, which risks making war even more horrible. It was NOT the same thing as clerks of factory workers standing in the line of battle for a few days, then going home.

It is critical that soldiers in occupied territory always understand who it is lawful to shoot. People should be very careful about blurring that line.

There is a story from 1870 of German troops shooting Franc-tireurs. A local objected that they were only doing what Germans had done in 1813, and the German officer replied "yes: and the trees still grow from which you hanged them."

@robert piepenbrink
I spoke of discretion for those who did not wear uniforms.

Pretend to be a non-combatant until someone turns their back on you to assassinate them, the communist resistance, mostly Jewish, called the Manouchian-Boczov-Rayman Group then "Manouchian Group", named after its military commissioner Missak Manouchian acted like this and Charles de Gaulle was against it…

A French film director, Claude Autant-Lara, says in his film 'La Jument Verte',"when you don't wear uniforms you don't fight those who do".

that is only the "german" meaning and vision of "Francs-Tireurs" as irregulars or armed civilians adopted today who has nothing to do historically and military-speaking with the real French Francs-Tireurs, they were not "irregulars" the first units, few companies in Alsace and Lorraine, were raised in 1868 and others obviously in 1870 in whole France will concern around 600 corps of volunteers French and Foreigners infantry cavalry artillery engineers in regiments battalions squadrons companies batteries totally military organized and uniformed attached to the French National Guard, nothing to do with so-called irregulars or civilians opening the fire against soldiers

@Lilian
So no partisans in the ACW?