"System 7 Napoleonics...any good?" Topic

I've just gotten a mass of System 7 Napoleonics "counters" and the Fire & Steel rules. This looks like a very interesting miniatures/boardgame, but could anyone who's played it give me some opinions on how it plays? Thanks.

I played with a friend when it first came out and enjoyed it. Actually it got me into Napoleonics, before then it was a period to be avoided.

Not great. The system wasn't good originally, and has dated badly. Of course you can use the counters with any ruleset with a bit of tweaking.

Haven't played it, but System 7 bits were quite pricey collectibles when I tried to track some down 20 years ago without the internet.

I have played it for years. We have a yahoo group link
The counters are being revised and there are some that are avaliable for down load.

Played System 7 quite a bit in the early '80s and then returned to it in the mid-90's for a brief period. If I recall, there was a fair amount of bookkeeping required as well as the use of an average die for melee combats. I have one particularly outstanding memory of playing "cat and mouse" with a very elusive British RHA section in our refight of Coa as those pesky guns riddled my advancing French columns.

You can't say anything bad about an award-winning set of miniatures!

Allen

Great for a studet or Sodlier. Keep Armies i a ziplock! Wish I had kept mine, I was only missing 1-2 sets. Actually took almost as much table as Empire in 15mm

That would be because they were 1:20 scale after all. I had the whole series and maps that were geomorphic so they could be rearranged to give different battlefields. I played them a lot when they first came out and then went over to different systems that I thought better represented what I thought Napoleonic battles weere like. Wish I still had mine, if only for the huge variety of troops, but unfortunately I loaned them to a fellow who disappeared for a few years and when he resurfaced denied I'd ever loaned them to him.

I've always been curious: Why were they called "System 7?"

(Were there six others prior to that?)

Hi

I rather liked the approach of System seven which derived from an earlier version of rules for Avalon Hill's Gettysburg. Simply, I liked the idea of having the counter cover the ground area of the deployed unit.

Which we shamelessly stole for our own ancients and medieval rules. Cut a trey to cover the ground area of, say, a cohort or, in this period, a regiment and put whatever figs ON it that you want.

Very liberating.

Rocky

I was less than impressed with System 7. It seems to me that lacked both the precision of a board game's hex grid, and the colour of miniatures. In effect, they were the worst of both worlds.

Furthermore, the counters were so light that they would slide all over the battlefield, and some were so small that they were just too fiddly.

I had about four sets. I'm not sure where they went but I've never really missed them.

Maybe the system would have worked if the counters were larger and heavier, or if the appearance was better (they were made before modern computer graphics were available). Counters with lots of little soldiers on them might have helped (System 8?).

I remember showing them to a friend whose only wargaming experience had been playing a few AH games. I showed him the various formations, and how to move them, and he asked "And this is fun?"

Were Fire and Steel designed for System 7 then, or is it just a suitable ruleset? Man, I loves me some Fire and Steel…

System 7 was based upon the premise of a miniature that was 7mm tall. Adler and Baccus are the closest to that concept.

System 7 was a way GDW could get folks started playing Naps before they had enough troops painted up for their Fire and Steel rules (which were the father for System 7….nearly identical in play except one made reference to counters; the other bases of minis).

Neat idea but horrible in execution, IMHO. Very "bulky" in play.

Best,
Tom Dye
GFI

What I remember is lining up all ten companies in a British battalion, and pushing a little too hard and having the battalion move forward because the thin counters were light as feathers, or changing formation to line and then having the line kink. The worst was stacking (yes, in certain circumstances that was allowed!). The counters would slide on top of each other. The tedium of fixing and re-fixing the counters got to you eventually.

The System 7 counters were the same size as the equivalent F&S stands. The idea was that the gamers would glue the figures to the counters as they got them painted.

wryone, the Fire & Steel in question is the old GDW Napoleonics rules, not the new WRG skirmish rules. F&S was designed first, then System 7 came along to help newbies get started.

No, I know. I was thinking of the old GDW set. Grand fun with 20mm miniatures back in the day. I had no idea there were ever counters for it…

But as those rules have bases of all kinds of different frontages, defending on the size of a troop or company, I can see why using counters would be a nightmare…

I kind of liked this old stuff. Always thought you could use 6mm figs either stuck on or in lieu of the counters. The rules had some nice detail to them but needed the sequencing and calculations cleaned up. Some people have created charts to ease the calculations and tweaked the sequences, etc. Google "System 7 Napoleonics" and check out what some Vancouver guys and Yankee Air Pirates have done. The latter has actually created a download for a Quatre Bras scenario including all units, rules upgrades, and the terrain. Definitely an "old school" ruleset, but I rather miss some of these older more straightforward treatments.

"Neat idea but horrible in execution, IMHO. Very "bulky" in play." Tom Dye

I seem to remember you enjoying the game very much back in the day. You seem to have had all the French.

What did a sheet cost when they were for sale?

We've played around 30 games of this system ,over 20 years, with the rules heavily tweaked to our liking. It is not as pretty as a pure model miniatures battle , but it does look impressive and works well.The guys, very experienced gamers all, love it.

Although I have not ran a battle in 5 years I am constantly hounded to do so and am studying the Battle of Vemeiro tonight to get the OoB and terrain correct. I will include a special rule on "out of control charging British infantry!" as that seemed to happen in this period.

Why System 7?
It comes down to this,
On a 10 foot by 14 foot table , should we wish

We can recreate any battle between 1795 to 1815 of any European force mix.

We can slam a French army of well over 300 full battalions of French line/ guard battalions including French Allies battalions and 50 or so regiments of calvary and over 100 artillery batteries. Against over 500 battalions of Russian, Austrian, British, Prussian and minor allies (Dutch, Spanish, Port etc) . also over 50 regiments of horse and over 100 artillery batteries.
(3 to 12 pounders).

Total cost . . .around $200 USD

1812 organization I believe was the standard used. It's cheap and the armies/battle you can create are HUGE.
No one could create a mounted painted miniatures army this size and variety today under probably $10 USD grand and/or years of work.The armies can be organized and packed away nicely in the old SPI game trays.

As to some negative comments I see mentioned.I do agree, however . . .

On sliding stands of troops.

Having owned/created at one time a large beautiful army – mounted – cast – hand painted and then watched my friends drop them on the floor , knock figures off stands, pick up and break off their swords , lances ,arms , heads and feet and generally butcher them.I wouldn't ever think of fighting a battle with my few remaining survivors.

On command control rules; Ranked officers (named in many cases) are included for all armies and command control rules/ranges/structures are easy to apply.

IMHO

System 7 is a system for war gamers , who are more interested in the battles then the esthetics of the battles.

If you are so minded I recommend it for any club to own.

Amusing to read all this. I was digging around some of my old book boxes, and found an old box of Fire & Steel…and was wondering what had happened to their development.

Now I know.

Thanks.

GH

There is a free download of the Quatre Bras Battle Set from here:

link

More free sets are planned