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"Glide bombs and Grads" Topic


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UshCha Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2024 9:53 a.m. PST

Glide bombs and Grads
In trying out a novel idea for a scenario (not mine) I needed some additional information on Glide bombs and Grads so I did a bit of guesstimating. The results were I though interesting from a wargame perspective.
Glide Bomb effect – assume 100kg charge (seen this quoted but not the largest), equate its effect to the weight of charge of 155 mm HE shell.
From Wikipeadia
The M795 is a 155 mm high-fragmentation, steel (HF1)-body projectile, filled with 10.8 kilograms (23.8 lb) of TNT. It weighs approximately 47 kilograms (103 lb).
So we can say glide bomb equivalent to about 10 155mm artillery shells. Our own rules are loosely based on real world Public data indicates in trenches this would adversely impact an area VERY approximately 270 m side. This is approximate and at best I would say no better than ±30% of nominal. Better data would help.

From wiki -
Grad B1 Designed to deliver its munitions over an area rather than a point target, the Grad is not a precision weapon; at a range of 20 km, when a full salvo of 40 rockets is fired, the lethal area extends up to 600 m x 600 m (Jelic et al., 2013)
HE warhead WIKIPEADIA
The TGAF–5 HE warhead has a 5.4 kg explosive charge, a bursting height of 1–30 m, and a lethal range of 30 m. It can also pierce a 20 mm steel sheet at a distance of 7 m.
So as a cross check 40 grad rockets (1 launchers worth) at about 5.4 kg = 216 kg so area effectiveness = 1,667 sq m per kg. Note these are sub munitions not basic single charge so will be more effective than a std 155mm HE shell. That would at 100kg (a glide bomb) effect an equivalent area of 408 m side square so that is probably a bit on the high side for a single charge bomb. My 1/155 figure at +30% could be as high as 358m a side depending how you scale it. So my approximation may not be that bad, anybody got any better?
Destructive Effect
link

So grads could be roughly equated to 155mm artillery shell equivalents. Another bit that may be of interest the US field manual which notes that shooting Improved Convectional Munitions uses half as many shells.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian05 Aug 2024 10:44 a.m. PST

With glide bombs, I wonder…

* we know there is some chance of duds, with Russian glide bombs known to have descended as unguided bombs and hit inside Russia.

* I would imagine these are primarily scheduled as part of a planned attack, not 'on call' for when needed

* for the Russian glide bombs, accuracy is known to be a problem

smithsco05 Aug 2024 12:08 p.m. PST

The Russians are deploying a glide bomb that is 3000kg. It contains over 1000 kg of tnt. That is a big boom.

Cuprum205 Aug 2024 5:32 p.m. PST

Russian glide bombs are a recent development that was debugged during combat operations. Indeed, their initial accuracy was insufficient, but it was quickly brought to a completely acceptable level.
Now developments are continuing and new types of aerial bombs with very promising properties have appeared.

link

New Russian bomb (for some reason the article shows a picture of an old bomb from the middle of the last century with a controlled planning unit – I gave the correct photo): :

picture


link

CAPTAIN BEEFHEART06 Aug 2024 3:25 p.m. PST

…So, what does this lead to?

UshCha Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2024 11:30 p.m. PST

CAPTAIN BEEFHEART – this prvides some very basic approximate real world data that can be used in defining the effects for wargames simulation of such fires. To me a key uissue as to why I play wargames. Without at least a bit of credibility it's just pure fantasy and I have no interest in that at all.

Cuprum207 Aug 2024 3:23 a.m. PST

The effect of fire from a salvo rocket launcher (similar to the Grad) is summed up in a massive simultaneous strike from the superimposition of the effect of shock waves on each other. There is also a significant incendiary effect in the case of firing at a relatively short distance – the fuel that has not had time to burn has the effect of an incendiary mixture.

A guided aerial bomb differs little in combat effectiveness from a regular aerial bomb, except that the aircraft strikes while being relatively safe from enemy air defense systems. A ten-meter accuracy deviation is unlikely to matter, except for an attack on a heavy underground fortification, where precise destruction of a buried target is necessary.

UshCha Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2024 2:58 a.m. PST

OK so as a part of my trying to understand a bit about glide bombs and there possible effect I came across this link:-

link

As Russian glide bombs are guided dumb bombs this may be a tolerable approximation of what a glide bomb does.

Of most interest:- a 2000lb bomb with 0.025 sec delay gives a medium ground crater of about 16m dia.

This implies using glide bombs on say an infantry trench is a mark of desperation. It may be effective on a building if not that robust ( a multi story car park would class as robust).

Wolfhag Supporting Member of TMP22 Aug 2024 6:07 a.m. PST

Here is a graphic on Russian artillery:

Wolfhag

Wolfhag Supporting Member of TMP22 Aug 2024 12:21 p.m. PST

HE Bomb Effectiveness:

Grad causality effectiveness:

Grad MP impact:

Wolfhag

Wolfhag Supporting Member of TMP24 Aug 2024 1:34 p.m. PST

Russia is barely using one of its best weapons against Ukrainian forces in Kursk because it's scared to hit itself, war expert say

Link: link

Russia is unable to fully take advantage of one of its most effective weapons against Ukrainian forces advancing in its territory, a military-strategy expert said.

That's likely because Russian systems aren't good enough to ensure that it won't hit itself, he said.

Russia has increasingly fired glide bombs at Ukrainian territory in its invasion of the country.

The bombs are equipped with guidance systems that allow them to be launched from jets at a distance. They're difficult to stop, and Russia has been making them more powerful: Its newest model weighs 6,600 pounds.

But Russia has not been using the bombs at the same scale against Ukrainian forces that crossed the border into Russia earlier this month.

Wolfhag

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