"invasion of Texas" Topic

on the right of a state to repel an invasion:

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The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit permitted the State of Texas' buoy barrier in the Rio Grande to remain in an en banc ruling Tuesday night, but an ancillary opinion from Judge James Ho endorses one of Gov. Greg Abbott's main border contentions: that the state is being "invaded" by illegal immigrants.

"A sovereign isn't a sovereign if it can't defend itself against invasion. … States did not forfeit this sovereign prerogative when they joined the Union," Ho wrote.

"Indeed, the Constitution is even more explicit when it comes to the States. Presidents routinely insist that their power to repel invasion is implied by certain clauses. But Article I, section 10 is explicit that States have the right to ‘engage in War' if ‘actually invaded,' ‘without the Consent of Congress.'"

Ho cited multiple historical examples of states engaging in military action to repel foreign actors, including deploying state soldiers to the border in the 19th century to beat back bandits who'd crossed the southern border from Mexico.

Ho then wrote, "Supreme Court precedent and longstanding Executive Branch practice confirm that, when a President decides to use military force, that's a nonjusticiable political question not susceptible to judicial reversal. I see no principled basis for treating such authority differently when it's invoked by a Governor rather than by a President."

"If anything, a State's authority to ‘engage in War' in response to invasion ‘without the Consent of Congress' is even more textually explicit than the President's."

5th Circuit is next to highest court over Texas. Only judicial challenge would be to Supremes, either directly or if another circuit conflicts (which could happen on general question but not on Texas).

But the courts will likely duck, treating this as a political question.

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The 5th circuit has 18 judges. Twelve agreed with the opinion favoring Texas' right to deploy the buoys; six dissented.

Makes you wonder what would happen if all the border governors deployed National Guard troops and closed their borders. Sounds like they could do that legally. What would the feds do? Hmmmmmmmmm!

The question seems to depend on how "invasion" can be defined.

An armed raid, or bandits, that's one thing.

Civilians crossing a border is not quite the same thing…

To be fair Bill, or at least I believe it is fair. If January 6th can be termed an "insurrection" to overthrow the government, even though there were no guns used by the "insurrectionist", very little real damage, most walking through as if on a tour and the only person killed by bullets, was an unarmed female ex-veteran protester. Than I would say that over 10 million "illegal" aliens crossing the border in less then 4 years, constitutes an invasion. Armed or not. 😉

Especially if many are gang members, criminals, mentally ill or drug runners carrying fentanyl and other drugs that will kill American citizens. OPPs, left out foreign operatives and terrorist.

By my definition, that is an invasion. But I'm open to different definitions, I just won't agree. 😉

+1 35th OVI

Machiavelli argued that colonies are better than garrisons, if you want to hold territory.

It's an invasion.

Ask the American Indians if a successful invasion requires full military involvement. An armed clean up is only required to finish off the remaining Restless natives.

Okay 35th, I'll try, and we can agree to disagree in advance and save time! 😄

90% of the fentanyl gets in via American citizens. Very cleverly too. Good news. The new sophisticated detection tech is working and being deployed in much greater numbers. As you may know, two of the biggest cartel leaders were just caught by us also.

While border entries are down substantially, it's still a mess and my big worry is all those who got in. Since the national crime rate has dropped substantially, that may not be the issue. Having been on the street with these people in the past, I saw almost none of them committing crimes, just laying low and behaving as much as possible to not get deported. Per the NYPD that is true today.

But I have no doubt that some very bad guys have gotten in and may also be laying low. Foreign agents tend to come in via airports. But some likely took the southern route to avoid scrutiny. Not good. China is not a great place to live these days and some Chinese are just escaping. But you can bet there are plenty of spies, its like the national pastime.

The Jan 6 people were American citizens who got whipped up into a mob and broke through locked windows and doors to enter and force Congress to discontinue certifying the election and run for safety, this means you Josh Hawley. They verbalized physical threats to the VP and others. Based on the tone of voice, I don't think they wanted Pence's or Pelosi's autograph. Half the Congress later completely changed their stories on this in order to avoid offending their leader. Not an invasion, more like a coup to change election results, although I believe these people were sincere.

I wonder if Texas would be happier just being on its own.

Yes we disagree. 😉

"I wonder if Texas would be happier just being on its own."

I'm thinking many of the states would be happier together. 😉

I like Texans… unless we are playing football against each other.

Bottom line, IMO … millions for illegal aliens have crossed the border. Causing much more harm than good. The rapes and deaths on Americans should be enough to close the border. Add sex trafficking and the drugs coming across the border killing thousands of Americans should be enough to close the border.

You want to be an American, you do it legally. Like my grandparents did in 1905.

It appears many are not here to be American citizens. They
are here for the freebees and bad intent.

It has 0 to do with racism or saying it has to do with being humanitarians.

It is all about logistics and national security. Anything else is 🐴💩.

The "rumored" plan of somehow allowing these illegal aliens to vote in national election seems insidious. Or is it just conspiracy theory ?

Bottom line, IMO … millions of illegal aliens have crossed the border in the past 3+ years. Causing much more harm than good. The rapes and deaths on Americans should be enough to close the border. Add sex trafficking and the drugs coming across the border killing thousands of Americans should be enough to close the border. And allow ICE, CBP, LEOs, etc. to start mass deportations. With the priority be military age males.

You want to be an American, you do it legally. Like my grandparents did in 1905.

It appears many are not here to be American citizens. They
are here for the freebees and bad intent.

It has 0 to do with racism or saying it has to do with being humanitarians.

It is all about logistics and national security. Anything else is 🐴💩.

The "rumored" plan of somehow allowing these illegal aliens to vote in national election seems insidious. Or is it just conspiracy theory ?

The example of Italy to deal with the issue of immigration is interesting… they put money and hire a third country (Albania) where buildings are built to house thousands of illegal immigrants… there they are given food, clothing, health, school, sports etc… but they cannot leave until they pass a deep scrutiny about their origins, qualities, capabilities, etc… internal security is provided by the Italians… external security by the Albanians… transportation there is done by Italy (airplane or boat)…

Here we have a country that is almost depopulated and lacks funds… (smile)

There is also enough distance for them to flee and try to return… (smile)

Armand

If a handful of nitwits running around playing grabass in the Senate chambers can be classified as an "insurrection," surely a million foreigners of dubious provenance crossing our border can be called an "invasion."

I find it hilarious that all of the rich, anti-immigration enclaves are maintained by people who crossed the border illegally. They don't look closely at their gardeners, or the guys digging ditches to repair sprinkler systems, or the guys re-roofing their houses.

I find it hilarious that all of the rich, anti-immigration enclaves are maintained by people who crossed the border illegally. They don't look closely at their gardeners, or the guys digging ditches to repair sprinkler systems, or the guys re-roofing their houses.

Indeed. If a certain politician got his way, deporting all the illegals would do some pretty significant damage to the US economy. If you thought inflation was bad, wait till you see food prices when cheap foreign labor isn't there to pick your strawberries.

Damon.

Bingo..they also maintain golf courses.. Farm labor is a critical issue. But we need legal workers.

Still, the building of a new immigration system has to happen and we need to find out as best we can who is already here and deal with any bad guys. There is no flood of rapists, etc. but there will be some bad guys. The goal is to have everybody enter legally.

35th, Texans are fine, but I worry about them getting upset, especially now that half of CA is moving there and they can't maintain the air conditioning with a homemade grid.

For someone of Latin origin… what is incomprehensible to me is that having discussed the subject with many people of Mexican origin and surname there, I was so surprised to hear that many of them were enrolled in the border control police, it had not been so long since they had arrived in the same illegal manner as so many others, they had family in Mexico or the rest of Latin America and yet… they were the staunchest defenders of stopping and expelling those of their own blood and origin…

The Kappo symptom?

I clearly perceived that it had cost them so much to get to where they were that they feared losing or seeing their chances of progress diminished if they accepted those who came from further behind…

Incomprehensible to me…

Armand

Kapo, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo. As long as you do the job you will be treated better. The SS took care of them, because this was leading to a better organization of the "Endlösung". So it is not incomprehensible: if you look at the way the Germans worked it was always offering destruction or staying alive while collaborating. Not many people will choose destruction.

And I recently saw an interview with an American farmer who told the journalist that it would be impossible to keep his orchard without the cheap labour. One should read Garand's post again…

First Republicans/conservatives are NOT against immigration. They are against "ILLEGAL" immigration. Please try to understand that. Especially uncontrolled and unvetted! So that they are against immigration is a falsehood spread by the other side.

All immigrants who came here legally that I know and talk to, are also upset about it.

Before the uncontrolled illegal invasion, this country was able to get the crops picked, fill jobs, mow their lawns… there were work visas to bring them in if necessary. I picked strawberries in the spring for a farmer when I was 6 and 7, for a nickel a pint. I cleaned lots and mowed lawns when I was 10 until I was working part time jobs. I worked crap jobs to get through college. People can get off their butts and mow their own lawns. In most cases, it would do them good. We have a farmer who Detassels his corn. For years he hired school kids to do it as summer jobs. Now he has problems getting them.

I don't see a lack of workers, I see a lack of people who are willing to work.

One could easily say that those who back the illegal invasion, have no issues with the deaths and crimes committed by these illegals. Some would say even complicit. I don't, but it as easy to make, as the accusations that are being made against those who oppose the invasion.

We have an legal immigration system. We have a system to allow migrant workers to enter and work farm labor. Some politicians just ignored it and opted to flood the system for their own power purposes.

Not even a 4th of links of crimes committed by illegals that I have. Not to mention the terrorists and spy infiltrations. All are unnecessary and were… preventable.

Subject: Iranian illegal immigrant on terror watch list caught near southern border: sources | Fox News

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Subject: Iranian Woman Stabbed Man in Revenge for Soleimani Killing – PJ Media

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Subject: Previously Deported Illegal Alien Indicted for Allegedly Murdering, Dismembering Woman and Her Son

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Subject: 16 People On FBI's Terror Watch-List Arrested At U.S. Border, Authorities Say | The Daily Wire

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Subject: Texas shooting: Suspect accused of killing 5 neighbors after request to stop firing rifle | Fox News

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Subject: Suspect in massacre had been deported 4 times after entering US illegally, ICE source says | CNN

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Subject: REPORT: San Diego Border Patrol Agents Arrested Afghan National on the FBI's Terror Watchlist After Crossing the Border Illegally | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

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Subject: Maryland teen rape suspect is illegal immigrant from El Salvador: ICE | Fox News

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Subject: Death penalty sought for gangster who killed Uber Eats driver's

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Subject: Homeless Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Florida Sgt. Michael Kunovich

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Subject: Biden's Border Crisis: Five Illegal Aliens Charged in Murder of 15-Year-Old Boy | The Gateway Pundit | by Peter Partoll, The Western Journal

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Subject: 'Absolute ambush': Authorities believe Fargo suspect was planning mass shooting  – Alpha News

Interesting. As usual not covered. I found 2 local sources that confirmed him as a Syrian Refugee. Al-Qaeda? One of many we have brought in?

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Subject: Erie County tells NYC to stop sending migrants amid sex assault cases, National Guard deployed – syracuse.com

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Subject: Syrian refugee's violent "jihad" attack foiled by North Dakota police is caught on bodycam and the media is covering it up… – Revolver News

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Subject: Dallas Police release footage of shootout with illegal immigrant who fired into truck, killing his roommate | Fox News

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Subject: Honduran man, twice deported from US, charged with murders in Nashville after 2 bodies found | Fox News

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Subject: ICE arrests Brazilian illegal immigrant child rapist in Martha's Vineyard

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Subject: More Venezuelan migrants residing in Chicago caught stealing from suburban Macy's store, authorities say

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Subject: House burglary: Gangs from South America use security jammers to break in to expensive homes in Detroit area: police – ABC7 Chicago

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Subject: Bill Melugin on X: "SCOOP: Per multiple law enforcement sources, the suspect who shot a San Antonio police officer w/ a rifle this morning is a Venezuelan illegal alien who was caught by Border Patrol in Eagle Pass, TX last November & was released into the US w/ his next court date in April 2026. t.co/Z9xScZZwoQ / X

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Subject: Third man accused of homicide in Oakton arrested in DC, police say

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Subject: Virginia: Illegal Accused of Carjacking, Killing 54-Year-Old Grandmother

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It's not the case that a lack of cheap labor will tank the economy: America was built on a tight labor market. For most of this country's history, real wages were higher (and living costs were lower) than they were in Europe: why else would people brave the risks that came with leaving home and family to settle in a new country? But open borders change the equation radically, and to the disadvantage of native Americans. If we can't find people to do the jobs, the wage level will increase to the point where it's worthwhile for Americans to do the work.

That's not a bad outcome for the ordinary wage earner. It's not a bad outcome for the native-born bottom quintile of the population (economically speaking); the people it's bad for are the wealthy, who have been winking at illegal immigration (and expanding legal immigration) so their lawns can get cut cheaply and their workforces can get staffed by foreigners working on visas who will do the job more cheaply than the native population will- so that they can return the consumer surplus to themselves as bonuses, and to their shareholders as stock value.

As a Texan I'm not sure if we would want to be on our own, but it would be nice if DC would either stop interfering with our ability to defend ourselves or actually step up and do the job they are supposed to do. And yes, Bill, they are coming across the border armed. You guys are welcome to take a tour of the Valley and see for yourselves. It is an invasion and I'm proud of my governor for fighting back.

Some interesting insights from TMP members regarding Jan 6th. I have spoken to officers who were there, some did see firearms carried on the bodies of protesters. Others told me that once doors were breached and people swarmed in, they were hesitant to use force for a myriad of reasons (unclear use of force guidelines, being surrounded and outnumbered, etc ).

A considerable amount of damage was done (numerous instances of human feces) and officers were injured. Officers who voted Trump told me unequivocally it was a riot.

I am a conservative (a true conservative not a MAGA populist) who believes in border security and has spent time on the border myself (and yes the border is a nightmare). Jan 6th was someplace between a disgraceful riot and a soft insurrection, it was not a tour. The border situation is also a disgrace.

It's amazing to see the mental gymnastics both fringe elements perform to justify their positions. If you think your "side" is only correct and the opposing camp is only wrong…you are incredibly naive and ignorant.

35th, I have no problem recognizing the seriousness of these crimes. The NYT just ran a story about a Brooklyn neighborhood overrun by 4000 migrants and their impact, which includes three homicides this year. Mostly Venezuelans and the murders were Venezuelan gang on gang. And the character and quality of life has changed there, according to residents. Not right.

There is an impact, but NYPD also points out the crime rate there has been dropping even as the number of migrants grows. In the big picture this is also true.

Even though these crimes are a relatively small percentage, many would not have happened at all with better border controls. And we don't know how many gangs have opened up shop here by crossing illegally. Self-inflicted wounds.

The extent of the volume of migrant crime is routinely misrepresented for political weaponization. But it can't be ignored either. The incredible flood of people is a population size of several large cites suddenly sprung on us, and out of millions, there have always been criminals.

So far there has not been a massive migrant crime wave. It's not supported by the numbers. But there are so many problems with the border entries and the sheer number of illegals here that it is maybe the biggest political issue. Things have improved lately. Too little too late, IMO. And, as I keep saying, we don't even know who got in.

Agree, Prince Albert.

Again, as I have posted before. They have to become Americans legally. But as I said, many are not here to be Americans. Just to get freebees and the criminals want to loot, rape, kill, etc. Ret. CBP, ICE, etc. agents say 90+% don't qualify. Economic refugees don't count.

There is no reason to allow anymore illegal aliens into the US. There are 10-12-20(?) million here already. Almost all of them are here based on the US top leaders' policies. As well as some woke progressive socialists in Congress.

I am a conservative (a true conservative not a MAGA populist) who believes in border security and has spent time on the border myself (and yes the border is a nightmare). Jan 6th was someplace between a disgraceful riot and a soft insurrection, it was not a tour. The border situation is also a disgrace.

Well said, I agree, and I am very similar …

However, I don't see any of those who support the open border policies taking any illegal aliens in. And house, clothe, fed, get them med and education support, etc., etc.

The Gov't is taking $ away that should be going to US citizens. Who need help, etc. Not illegal aliens.

9lbs, 35th +1

We have an legal immigration system. We have a system to allow migrant workers to enter and work farm labor. Some politicians just ignored it and opted to flood the system for their own power purposes.

Bingo ! The laws that so many members of our gov't have ignored, etc. Should be enough to impeach. But many in Congress directly or indirectly support the policies. So these crimes go unpunished. Many in our gov't only follow laws that support the agenda and narrative. The forgot they work for "we the people". And many have become very rich/wealthy being in Congress, etc. Very wealthy woke progressives, etc. give a lot of $ to some of our elected leaders' campaigns. They do the bidding for those who "donated" to these "leaders(?)" …

deporting all the illegals would do some pretty significant damage to the US economy. If you thought inflation was bad, wait till you see food prices when cheap foreign labor isn't there to pick your strawberries.

With all the illegal aliens here most will get away with not being deported.

If a mass deportation becomes a reality, CBP, ICE, various LEO agencies, maybe even the NG gets involved, etc. Will have their hands full. Many have been hiding in the open, etc. for years. If e.g. there are 10 million(?) here, it will take a major operation to even get 1/2 of them. And the left, woke, progressives, etc., will be doing all they can to stop this.

1/6 riot, protest that got out of hand, or as our MSM is so fond of saying about violent and destructive protests on from the left: "a mostly peaceful protest". Those I can agree with on 1/6. Insurrection? No.

If they had firearms, they sure did not use them. Only the capitol Hill police, used firearms. I remember riots in the street when an "unarmed" black man was shot and killed by police, but nothing when an unarmed white woman was shot and killed by a black police officer. Crickets. I guess we have different justice systems.

Were there police officer injured? yes. Were there protestors injured? Yes. Just as in all the riots from the left. Difference… police officers died violently in some of those.

No doubt there was initially violent action, but it soon turned into many walking around like a tour. All below, are elements of the January 6th videos the January 6th Committee did not let you see. Only released later after obtained by Republican members. Also the overreaction of CHP.

FYI, I'm not a MAGA(see nothing wrong those that are). Trump was my 3rd choice. DeSantis my first and Ramaswami my second. I'd would feel safer with MAGA's then with pro-Hamas protestors, those protesting George Floyd, or going on "The View". 😂

Subject: Brandon Straka on X: "🚨Newly released footage of Matthew Perna (seen in red sweatshirt) shows Matthew walking calmly in the Capitol shooting video. Matthew pled guilty to initial charges, believing he may face 6-12 months in prison. Only after pleading guilty did the DOJ inform Matthew that they… t.co/1vu0vrLCFe / X

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Subject: Benny Johnson on X: "People were freely walking in and out of the Capitol on J6.. The cops are just standing there.. Not an "Insurrection" t.co/pKWxRMeS9z / X

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Subject: Jack Poso 🇺🇸 on X: "Prosecutors didn't want this Jan 6 footage to come out. Now it was 1.5 million views. Why is that? t.co/n0MQICC0HL / X

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Looks like training for Capitol Hill Police was a possible issue, and some injuries self inflicted.

Subject: DC_Draino on X: "🚨MASSIVE J6 DISCOVERY🚨 Timelapse video of the West Side of the Capitol shows the crowd move past police lines at 2:27 PM EST You know what happened at 2:26 PM? Bodycam footage shows a cop shooting a tear gas grenade *into police lines* causing them to retreat for air Watch! t.co/NeCiNY3VqR / X

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This last one, really watch it. The crowd is doing nothing but shouting. But it seem the CHP way overreacted. Violently

Subject: InvestigateJ6 on X: "@spreadlove2024 @TuckerCarlson @gregg_re Look at all this early J6 footage @TuckerCarlson could show the world, but won't. His producer @gregg_re and his team at Fox were given all of this last year. #J6CoverUp J6 protestors were fired upon with NO warning. USCP Chief Waldow lied saying he gave warnings but never did. t.co/xNNsB8XfBy / X

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And this.. I can only imagine if the man had been young and black.

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "J6 video shows Capitol Police beating a man who was pushed into the tunnel by the surging crowd. This man was stuck and had nowhere to go as the protesters behind him kept pushing forward. t.co/UqxsJJTeYO / X

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As someone who is dealing with a LEGAL immigration case -- as we speak -- I have actual, real world experience with this. My wife is married to a US Citizen. She has no criminal record, & is in reasonably good health for her age.

Immigration estimates it will take 15 MONTHS to approve her application. The immigration system is broken, badly needs to be revised, improved, made more efficient. Saying that we already have a legal immigration system is being blissfully unaware of the issues with legal immigration.

Regardless of what we did in the past, this is not 40 years ago, nor is it 20, or 10. The US has ALWAYS used migrant workers, even back in the "good 'ol days." Mexicans were drafted into the US military during WWII. Do you think they were here as tourists?

The Right keeps saying they are fine with legal immigration, but do nothing, say nothing about the issues with the current immigration system. It is because IMHO they'd rather keep it weaponized to beat over the heads of the left, to win votes.

Damon.

Garand I'm very familiar with what "legal" immigrants have to go through. I worked with 2 that went through it and became citizens. One from the Philippines and one from India. Both had very useful skills, that are needed. Revamp it to make "legal" immigration easier. Increase the amount. I'm fine with that. As is everyone on TMP that I know who are conservatives.

I would say your wife's issues have as much to do with inefficient, governmental bureaucracy as anything else. That can be and should be cleaned up and it happens with most governmental agencies that I have dealt with. Too many Chiefs, too much paperwork and way, way too many silly rules

But illegal, is illegal. You should not be rewarded for coming to this country illegally and you should not receive any benefits at the taxpayers expense. I have no issues with deportations of those who did. I would rather that my taxpayer money went for that, than to reward those who came in illegally.

The current immigration system is broken. CIS is a user-fee driven agency so it benefits them to process applications rather than scrutinize them. Look to see how many adjudicators are employed in comparison to fraud investigators within the asylum department.

The vast majority of the people encountered at the border are not asylees. They are here for economic opportunities, some stay and some leave. Within these masses, there are criminals and other more nefarious operators.

This is a problem that has been ongoing for decades. Illegal immigration benefits many groups but there are hidden costs which everyone must bear. Some people are just given a pathway to citizenship while others (often more deserving) have to wait years and even decades. Look at diversity visas as an example.

Seeing how the sausage gets made, I haven't really been impressed with any of the administrations over the past 16 years. One group tries to address it and goes about it in some of the worst ways and the other side pretends the issue doesn't exist. Both sides should be wearing clown shoes when they talk of immigration.

Back to January 6th, it's the one instance where the left lionizes those in law enforcement and the right demonizes it. They all are hypocrites and can go to hell in my opinion.

Correct, Garand, and were so directed to do so by their leader for the upcoming election. It is also not right to assume that only progressives profit from these policies. The rich don't care about political parties on principle. They look for tax breaks and deregulation.

The Jan 6 riot was a mixed bag, the relatively peaceful protesters don't do much to mitigate the non-peaceful ones- forced entry, verbal threats of violence against public officials, the disruption of the election certification, which was the substance of the speeches the crowd had previously heard before they were directed to the Capitol.

Remember Lafayette Square, where the crowd was dispersed by personnel from the Bureau of Prisons who had removed their identifying insignia.There was liberal use of tear gas there, and pepper spray, and the crowd dispersed. The Jan 6 crowd did not.

I agree that the Capitol police appeared to be disjointed in their response, lack of training and sheer surprise at the situation they were in.

I'd say there are both good and bad police. Just like any profession. I have issues with the SS on the 13th. There were good agents there, but obvious bad ones as well and horrible organization.

Having said that, did you watch the January 6th videos I posted? Do you agree January 6th was not quite what was portrayed by the January 6 commission, the mainstream media and many democratic leaders.

A riot, a protest.. sure. An organized insurrection to turn over a government? Woody Allen and Monty Python would have done a better job. 🙂

Thank god Musk took over Twitter.

35thOVI, you're not going to resolve one without the other. You want to end illegal immigration? Then we need immigration reform NOW. The voices I typically hear from the right are all about deportation, border walls, etc. I never, never hear them talking about reforming the system to meet needs of the economy. Without immigration, the US would have negative population growth, like China, Japan, & S Korea. Which will be devistating economically. Also, currently we are statistically at near full employment. The economy needs more warm bodies in order to move forward.

The issues I have with this debate is the fear mongering that goes on, which IMHO does not lead to any productive movement forward on the immigration issues. We had a certain politician refer to them as "scum, vermin, etc." Most come here to work, as said above. Many go home later. I also very firmly believe that the vast majority, if given the opportunity, that is not regressively burdensome, will make the effort to be legal.

I advocate for a temporary parole system, combined with a new, revised (easy to apply for) migrant immigration visa. Give everyone who is illegal in the US the opportunity to bring themselves to legal status (deporting 11 million immigrants is not practical, without huge expenditures from the Federal budget, & significant damage to the economy). If you can't or don't make yourself legal in this grace period, sucks to be you if you get caught afterwards. Then, issue migrant visas annually based on feedback from the economy. Years of high unemployment, maybe issue fewer visas. Years of low unemployment, more visas.

Believe me, this is a discussion I have frequently with my wife, who is on the side of "deport them all." Ecuador has had its own issues with illegal immigrants, mostly refugees from Venezuela (we had a refugee living with us for a while, too). And for the record, she is much further to the left on me with most issues, save social (where she is to the right of me).

Damon.

Damon, I've said pretty much all I can, others can fill in if they want. Are there good illegals? Sure. But they are still… illegal. No getting around that point. Illegals are currently costing us billions, if not more. We will never know the real cost. I would rather pay the money and deport them and build a wall.

Revamp legal immigration at the same time along with temporary visas.

2 more things. We've tried the "let them in" approach and we have a never ending invasion. Let's try the other approach for a change. (It will never happen, as the left will roadblock it in the court systems forever.., just like they did the wall).

Secondly Ronald Reagan tried the Amnesty route. Sadly, it did not work.

"As the nation's attention turns back to the fractured debate over immigration, it might be helpful to remember that in 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers.

But the bill also made any immigrant who'd entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty -- a word not usually associated with the father of modern conservatism"

I think almost 3 million became citizens.

Also, to add, actually prosecute companies that hire illegal immigrants, rather than the slap on the wrist we are giving them now. Illegal immigration won't end unless there are no jobs for them to take.

Damon.

"Also, to add, actually prosecute companies that hire illegal immigrants, rather than the slap on the wrist we are giving them now. Illegal immigration won't end unless there are no jobs for them to take."

I have no issue with that.

If you wonder why January 6th really happened, it was because of crap like this.

"PHOENIX — Arizonans who lack proof of citizenship can again sign up to vote in this year's presidential and congressional races."

Why should you NOT have to prove you are a U.S. citizen to register to vote? This just makes it look like you are trying to cheat. Of course in another of the 2020 disputed states. Does anyone else feel this way?

Subject: Court reverses itself on Arizona voter registration rules

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I lived in Arizona for many years a border state that shares many of the same problems Texas does. When I lived in Arizona 17% of the inmate population was Mexican Nationals. I am sure Texas has its own horror stories to tell… The border states are entitled to security!

Enlightened AHEM… individuals that see this as a racist problem probably don't live near a border state and receive all their opinions from the media…

And no its not just drug smugglers…

35th, yes, I watched every video and referenced the peaceful protesters in my earlier reply. I don't believe that their reason for being there, having been incited and sent by the rally speakers, was a rightful protest. I do think they believed what they had been told. But my reasons above still apply,IMO. This was unique in its setting and intent. I would pardon some, as seen in the video. But who among them thought that forming a crowd to chant "Hang Mike Pence" erect a gallows, then break into the Capitol might be wrong?

Tort, I won't change your mind, or anyone's who believes DJT is the reincarnation of Hitler and Genghis Khan combined. The MSM and the party have succeeded all too well there. Slick editing and soundbites taken out of context work very well. Even some of his own stupid remarks haunt him. He can be his own worst enemy. But a lot are lies and scare tactics. I believe that is all they have.

I just try and get some alternative information out there, that the MSM ignores and hides, in the hope that some will delve deeper on the web and read views that might not agree with what they have been handed by the MSM.

I will say; think back in the last almost 4 years, to all the things the MSM and administration has told you were facts, that have since been proven to be false and fake. I won't do the list, but I'm sure most know. Why keep believing them?
Now they are trying to "1984" Harris's record, even though the tapes of her views are out there.

As the old saying goes: Don't p#SS on my back and tell me it's raining. 😉

As I have said before; I was better off under DJT, than I have been under the current administration. I also felt a whole lot safer. In the long run, that's all that matters to me.

Illegal aliens paid an estimated $96.7 USD billion in taxes in 2022: link

"When I lived in Arizona 17% of the inmate population was Mexican Nationals."

You could apply the same argument to Black Americans.

I wouldn't but there are plenty of people who do.

I've seen plenty of white kids get released for street corner brawls that would have seen Black kids get tossed into the county jail until their trial date. "Oh, boys will be boys, they just need to sleep it off."

As I've said before on this board, I don't care if Donald Trump comes, stays, lays or prays. My beef with the Jan 6 propaganda that keeps getting spit out is this: the same people who spent a year egging on riot after riot (including destruction of property, arson, looting, assault, and heaven only knows how much damage), then turned on a dime to act as if the idiots who stormed the Capitol were somehow so much worse than the chuckleheads they themselves had been applauding and encouraging at every turn.

I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now.

Capitol Police don't lack training. They have significantly more than typical police and handle numerous rallies and protests, the department is hamstrung by politics. They typically show a great deal of restraint because the capitol is an open building for citizenry. Politicians exert pressure for things to be as open as possible for their constituents. They also suffer weak leadership that is fearful of criticism from those in charge.

January 6th happened because people are idiots and allow themselves to be whipped into a frenzy by clowns like Trump and the rest of the ilk. Many people need to belong to movements to feel special: Code Pink, MAGA, BLM, Proud Boys, etc. All the same people just flying different banners.

The CDU (civil disturbance unit) activated for the day was told not to equip themselves in hard armor out of concern it might upset or antagonize the protesters. The same peaceful protesters who were changing to "hang Mike Pence"….

The process to fine those companies hiring illegals (which is actually a fine for not abiding by the I9 process with aggravating factors such as the employees being illegal) is archaic and slow and fines are whittled down to a fraction if they actually get to that point (and that has always been the case). Good luck pursuing them criminally, that is even less successful than administrative fines. All of these systems need an overhaul.

There are a lot of grievances, broken systems, broken promises, greedy phonies, narcissistic wannabe leaders. I don't know much about Ancient Rome, but don't we seem like we are becoming similar?

I do not understand the American political system, but illegal immigration is a worldwide phenomenon.

I always remember the Romans in Britain, they finally settled on using Hadrian's wall as a border defence.(Please note there were allied British tribes north of the wall too) I suppose to a degree it worked as a defence. Soon, the Northern Barbarians started using ships to sail round the wall…