"Starting in 3D printing" Topic

Hi all,
I'm very interested in getting into this. The thought of fiddling with the tech reminds me of the early days of PCs.

I'll want to do land-based Historical wargames & terrain. Periods of interest are Ancients, Napoleonics, WW2. Scales from 6mm to Bolt action. Initial research indicates that Warhammer style STL files are pervasive, and although I've found some Historicals & Terrain on Thingiverse, they're few and far between, and some of the quality is a bit clunky.

So could anyone recommend a decent site or two for me to browse, please. Esp for Naps and WW2

Re the kit, I'm pretty much sold on the Elegoo Mars or Saturn with the bigger screens for 1/56 scale stuff.
The Saturn has a self-levelling plate, but is that worth the extra?
I have also seen flexible steel plate add-ons recommended. Are these a good idea?
And which of the resins would give good detail but not break on first touch?
I know that the 3D community is a very supportive one, so hopefully I'll be able to find a few decent forums to join while I'm finding my feet. Or printing m feet, even.

Thanks for any advice you can give,

Wargaming3D, MyMinifactory (Eskice) and 3D Breed all make files. I switched to Sunlu ABS like. Good strength and price is ok. Also, chunky can be fixed easily. I run a Printing shop and advertise here. You can email me and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. I also suggest joining Facebook groups for your printers. Great resources! I own 6 Saturns. My last 2 are Saturn Ultra's. Levelling for resin isn't that big a deal vs FDM printers.

3D Breed has a Naps Kickstarter going on for 4 to 5 armies in 15mm. You might like that.

link

Thanks

John Leahy
johnleahy55atyahoodotcom

I was looking into this process as well. I have friends into this. Two have three machines and one has one in Alabama which is my area. My friends in Florida produce a massive amount. Their group, one has 12 and the other has 20. I have been getting hints from them.
Check Creality, Yeggi, Patreon.
A Mage Pro system was mentioned.
I checked 3D printing Historical Miniatures STL and got a lot of interesting sites.

YouTube is your friend. Sooo many videos discussing every aspect of the hobby. The 3D Printing DM has really good videos, of general interest: A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet, and all that jazz. What applies to printing fantasy figures, applies to printing historical figures, as well.

There is a rubber-like resin (forget the brand name) which is nigh indestructible, and produces good results. Most folks are blending it with more brittle, less expensive resins, to make figures that are far less brittle. The ratios vary, so you will need to experiment to see what works best for you. The rubber-like resin is two to three times the cost of the more brittle resins, hence the mixing of the two types.

The flexible steel printing plate allows you to flex it, to remove the printed mini's from it, without scraping. Make sure you learn about the toxicity of the resin fumes, and the skin irritation factors (always wear neoprene gloves!). Stay safe, have fun, and enjoy your new hobby! Cheers!

I second myminifactory, hit the site and search for free .stl files.

There are a number of sites out there that have .stl files, you just need to search for your subject of interest + .stl

digitaltaxidermy.co.uk
lootstudios.com

There's also a number of creators on myminifactory that use Patreon for monthly subs. They usually have a pretty good welcome package and then a number of new .stls each month.

Other sites for STL's
wargaming3d.com
cults3d.com/en
thingiverse.com

You will end up buying both a resin and a FDM machine. Resin for figures and vehicles, filament for buildings. If you get a bigger resin machine, you may be able to do your buildings on it, if you don't mind the resin cost.

If you are starting, and are not really obsessive about your figures and authenticity, look at the Wargames Atlantic Digital 'club' for $10 USD a month you get random figures sets from a wide variety of periods. They are not bad, but frustratingly the 20th cent ones seem to have some really stupid failures in research, and weh4en I begged them to fix the issues, or do better, they made fun of me. But you end up with a lot of random bits that are great to play around with for cheap. You'll find all manner of figures from chunky and dwarf-like to anatomically correct. For what seems like the BEST in figure sets look at Studio Histoia who have done some amazing ACW and WW2 sets.

Resin? they are all brittle. But a very popular thing to do is use 80% standard resin, and 20% Tenacious. gives it bit of a flex. You just need ot be careful with the thin bits. There's a historical wargames 3d facebook ground that is useful. And you will find the free/cheap models are often wanting (the later free Windam Graves are great!) but you can pay a little more and get models that are (when your printer is tuned up) very close to high end plastic quality.

Harbor freight is your friend for many cheap tools, and nitrile gloves. Don't waste your time with eater washable resin, get a washer and bite the bullet for IPA. Then learn to let the used stuff sit and settle for reuse. It's all very fun, but THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET !

Your first decision is Resin or FDM. Personally resin has no attraction whatsoever for me. It's costly takes more time and frankly often can produce not fit for purpose items. FDM has a massive advantage in that it's at least as useful as a DIY tool. The lines thing is only an issue if you stare at your figures from 6". As a wargamer I am only interested in viewing ranges from 3 to 6ft. At that distance detail is pointless you just can't see it.

You need to be very definite as to what you want out of a 3D printer before even looking at types.

I stick by my opinion that the best thing to do is draw up what you want and get it printed by a 3rd party. If its for you you will know without wasting money. It may also help you decide FDM vs Resin, and base size and volume.

It may also help your decision as FDM is no longer what it was. 2 material head printers mean soluble supports, not sure if resin has advanced that far yet. While I have yet to see it, the minimal lines which to me are a wild exaggeration are supposedly becoming even less on more modern FDM printers. I would look at this but my printer looks good for another few years at the moment so no rush.

You will have no trouble, there's *LOTS* of information out there.

Steve Jackson chronicled his entry into this area, and there is lots of useful stuff in this series: link

Lots of people selling STLs. They're everywhere. Many of them are excellent!

There is some flexible resin that will handle mistreatment. Breakage should not be a problem in this day and age if you cure everything properly.

I think the latest Mars 4 & 5 ultra have self-leveling.

I am about to do this myself. I promised myself I would finish a couple hours projects and then get a Mars 4 Ultra. I am soooooo close.

It's a whole new hobby and it's easier than ever to get into.

You're on the right track with choosing resin printing for your miniatures. Mars 4 is a nice machine to learn on and may suit all your needs. You can always upgrade when you're off the training wheels.

*The Saturn has a self-levelling plate, but is that worth the extra?
Yes – if you have the budget for it. Anything that makes printing easier is a good thing.

*I have also seen flexible steel plate add-ons recommended. Are these a good idea?
These are handy. I just buy a spare build plate and swap them after each print.

*And which of the resins would give good detail but not break on first touch?
I use Siraya Tech Fast Non-Brittle High Precision resin with added Siraya Tech Tenacious. This makes them more flexible/bendy and much better for wargaming without broken bayonets!

If your looking at historical terrain, I can't see why 3d printing would be the first choice?

Maybe it wasn't?

Hand made, scratch built looks the best.

Plastic and resin will always have that look.

Plus there's a lot of cast metal and resin and plastic, which is about 0 risk.

It's seems more 3d printing for the sake of 3d printing, in which case there must be better things to 3d print.

What sort of things are you wanting to make?

Just reread it.

6mm!? And you don't want to make it!?

FUN!

Don't dis Warhammer. I remember white dwarf had a cool article on making a 10mm warmaster house from a matchbox. Should be usable for 6mm. And a great use for matchboxes.

28mm WW2 and historical scatter don't need no printer.

Some old broken plate, pottery, plaster, tile or gravel for rubble and glue to MDF or card base. Add sand, bits box finds.

There are those painters pyramid thingies for tank traps. If you like tank.

Biuldings can be foam core, corrugated card, cast plaster like prefab concrete.

Plus you get to make alterations as you go, something 3d printing doesn't allow.

And you can actually put a figure/s next to it during construction.

But, I guess people will be able to buy robots soon, then they won't even have to play the game either.

PS

Can't find that warmaster article.

Anyone able to post a link?

YouTube link

Starting from scratch, with out a 3d printer, here is a good comparison piece, although it's injected plastic.

I think his only real criticism of scratch building is the time he took.

However if he made all the cladding as he did the doors, brushing and scoring bulsa sheet, or seperated ply, or even cardboard, it would have taken nowhere as long.

3D printing IS scratch building, if you make your own files. In bulk it's faster and cheaper FDM filament is cheaper than card, I use both. the only gain for card is for fold flat scenery, and it's dearer than filament.

"3D printing IS scratch building"

Scratch built?

Hardly.

I'm impressed you apparently, dig your own ore, refine your own oil to make the plastic, forge your own tools. Precision grind your scissors just for a start! Now shown me convincingly how you have done these things, Then you words will not be meaningless blather and I was will formally apologise. We all use ready made tools and materials.

No, computers aren't used in scratch building.

The entire idea of scratch building is to build from scratch, ie from only the most basic materials.

To say using a computer and 3d printer is scratch building is to say spin casters, injection moulders, and factories are. Which is incorrect.

Basic stuff.

If you're really good at it then scratch building can look amazing, but most of us aren't or don't have the time and patience, and the end result can look like something a 5 yr old with no thumbs threw together, so IMO 3d printing is a better option unless you have deep pockets and can wait a while and want to get a professional scratch builder to build for you. .

The entire idea of scratch building is to build from scratch, ie from only the most basic materials.

You can't get much more basic than a bit of cornstarch made into a roll of 1.75mm diameter "wire". You yordelf use copper wire and that is more complex to produce.

Ergo 3D printing is the ultimate scratch building using the most basic material.

HAND TOOL definition and meaning
Collins Dictionary
collinsdictionary.com › dictionary › english
5 days ago — Hand tools are fairly simple tools which you use with your hands, and which are usually not powered. Keep hand tools off the floor; ..

.

So an FDM printer is fairly simple, (It must be even I built one from a kit) and though being powerd does not imediately rule it out

Compliants about the definition please address Colins Dictionary ;-).

Pop.

3d printers are not hand tools.

To suggest the most complex and advanced of technology, computers and 3d printers, are basic or simple tools, or can be used, especially solely, for scratch building is perhaps a fantasy of some, but not myself.

I'm not sure why that notion is still being peddled here.

A persistent lie is not a truth.

Seems pretty basic to me, and most people.

Well, you can lead a horse to water…

PS

As an example, if I made a scratch built house and entered it in a scratch building competition, and someone entered the same competition with a 3d printed house, I would not be happy.

If they printed some windows and a cat out front, maybe 10 percent max, not so fussed, as you could probably use a few cast bits hear and there, rules depending.

But a 3d printed house is no different to just using an injected plastic house.

"But I designed it on the computer myself"

Well, I drew up the schematics/sculpted the master for the steel mould to be injection moulded.

It's not scratch built. It's engineered and machine manufactured.

Now, if I entered the original sculpt, perhaps, but it probably wouldn't be painted or finished. Plus it voids the point anyway.

I guess one could paper print a CG house and cut it out and glue together by hand. That may be ok, depending on how much detail is being cut and glued. And if it were ones own design. Likely wouldn't win any competition though, if that matters. Likely easier to just draw it on paper in the first place.

Anyway, just to put it into a real world situation.

"If you're really good at it then scratch building can look amazing, but most of us aren't or don't have the time and patience,"

Incorrect.

It is far easier for anyone to scratch biuld some terrain then learn how to use a computer and 3d printer.

Wargaming used to be about participation and DIY.

I think as it's grown in popularity, it's brought in people who aren't really into it in the first place.

It is far easier for anyone to scratch biuld some terrain then learn how to use a computer and 3d printer.

Youe spelling mistake not mine!

While I have sympathy with this statement its in realallity basically a lie. My kids (the eldest is 40+) worked on computers at school, and now its almost all that from a n early age. In addition as we are both "of an age" where we learned to use hand tools, Wood work and Metal work, were we used edged tools. The closest my girls got to a hand tool was a band saw, and that in a topic called Resistant Materials.

My son in his engineering degree never used hand tools much. In the class he allowed others to do his bit as they had never used even an electric drill before then. He had learnt at home So your statement is largely incorrect for all but an ageing few like us. Wargaming is still about participation but for many the DIY has gone like many DIY shops.

"a n"

"were we used"

If a person can't figure out scissors, glue and paint by 10, they have a problem.

"Youe spelling mistake not mine!"

Missed one. It's your.

There is really little point of doing that on an internet forum.

Unless it's an English language forum, perhaps.

I usually go back and correct things several times.

Recently, if there's one or two left that are obvious enough, I may not bother.

Obviously other people don't.

"Wargaming is still about participation"

It's taken a dive.

People with unpainted armies. Particularly armies made to "win".

3d printing terrain and all the plastic and MDF stuff.

The big companies have just made it into a rattly box fetish.

White dwarf is pretty tell tale, at least for GW, which usually tells you the state of things further along. It used to be brimming with actual hobby articles. Last time I checked it's just a catalogue. It doesn't even have credits anymore, apparently.

It's taken a dive.

People with unpainted armies. Particularly armies made to "win".

3d printing terrain and all the plastic and MDF stuff.

Lets take a look at these issues one at a time.

My own club is not in a "dive", actually very late, its membership is rising, a long delay after Covid.

Peapel with unpainted armies. That old rather sad predudice againts unpainted armies, alas is as old as the game. More enlightened folk have always accepted unpainted armies. So no dive ther just predudice.

Armies made to win, painted or unpainted, has been a forever issue, particularly with our competition folk who want to try before the time hungary issue of painting is addressed, So no "Dive" there just how its always been.

"3D printing terrain and all the plastic and MDF stuff." Actually there has allways been cast terrain, I have had over the years (30+ years ago) Resin, awful and brittle by todays standards and plaster models. 3D printed and (grudgingly) some lazer cut stuff even beats 3D printed in a model railway type artwork sence. Not sure why this makes it a dive. 3D printing releases folk from big buissness, as models are often home printed or from cottage industry type companies.

Not sure what "ratty box fetish" means proably a US only term. Certainly in our club now, nobody buys GW and few of us consider it as a part of wargaming, being its own hobby and no connection with ours. We have a "Rival firm" I think called Mantic which is similar to the GW hobby but again its too far from my hobby, so I have little knowledge of it.

As for magazines they have been a disaster for well over 10 years, They are called Trade mags in the UK now, not special interest. Even my mates "real" model mages like scale models are going that way so nothing of a dive recently.
Proably some of the old role in magazines has been taken over by places like Wargames Vault, how to make card scenary is now available there, instead of magazines and its cheaper!

"Peapel"

"ther"

"always"

"sence"

"buissness"

"mages"

"its"

"Not sure what "ratty box fetish" means proably a US only term."

Don't know, don't live there, mate.

Probably about Skaven players???

However, as I said, the "rattly" box fetish, is people buying lots of hmm.., perhaps rattly boxes?

I meant the quality of participation overall has taken a dive.

It's generally gone from a hobby to a spoon fed THX form of consumerism.

Some people are still holding on, and that's great.