"NYT- Ukrainian "international brigade" is" Topic

killing Russian POW's.

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Hopefully this is not true …

I would say it's safe to assume it is. I know everyone likes to think that war crimes are rare. I never served. Speaking with veterans from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq in my family, church, and local community they almost universally say they saw soldiers shoot enemy combatants attempting to surrender. Waffen SS, North Korean infiltrators, Viet Cong (specifically fighters they knew from local villages), and Iraqi insurgents that had previously been captured and released.

Hopefully, the Ukrainians will investigate.

Bad news, the Ukrainians should investigate, no need to stoop to the level of the Russians,

Tally Ho!

I hope the ukrainians investigate and prosecutes if they find enough evidence. This is not acceptable behavior. Laws and conventions should be followed. Nothing erodes support like behaving like criminals.

Perhaps noteworthy that this report involves "international troops – a.k.a. mercenaries" and foccuses particularly on
"A Greek soldier known as Zeus"- which might indicate his demeanour regarding enemy soldiers who fall under his control.

Never a good idea to execute prisoners or anyone surrendering. I am willing to bet Russians observed some of this behavior and knowing they will not be granted mercy in the future will fight to the bitter end.

Dragon, my first thought was the same. If they didn't observe it directly, you can be sure every Russian has now heard this story. This will cost lives on both sides.

Russia has been extrajudiciously killing Ukrainian prisoners and civilians the entire war.

Take a look at what the Ukrainian prisoners who are being exchanged look like. Hint, no civilized Western Country routinely starves and beats prisoners.

Do prisoners get killed by every side in every war? Quite often they do. Sometimes there is no way to secure prisoners, sometimes it's retribution, sometimes there is no reason at all.

If Russians don't want to get killed in Ukraine, they should shoot their officers and go home.

smithsco +1

In many conflicts war crimes like this are committed. No matter what war. Many go unreported or ignored. But as I said hopefully it is not true. However, historically some forces, armies, etc. have a predilection to commit war crimes of all types. With some of it is SOP to commit what are considered war crimes.

As some here noted. E.g. If one side kills EPWs, then the other side will do the same … as the cycle continues …

IMO one of the big factors here is a case of payback, revenge, etc. With some hatreds going back decades or even longer. Old hatreds die hard … literally …

But even without old animosities being a factor. E.g. if you remember in the movie "Breaker Morant"[highly recommended], the loss of the unit commander being killed. Causes many in that unit to go for payback. A fairly accurate movie generally.

When I attended the Infantry Officers Adv Course in the mid-'80s at Benning[now Moore]. The JAG spent a of couple days teaching us about what are war crimes, etc. How to prevent them, etc., etc. They used parts of "Breaker Morant" to point out examples of war crimes, etc. It became pretty clear if it was not already.

If Russians don't want to get killed in Ukraine, they should shoot their officers and go home.

Chances are if they deserted and went back home, they may be shot or imprisoned obviously. This IS the Russian Military …

The Russians seem to have a one for one policy on prisoner exchanges, it might be a good idea to keep them alive?

A Russian prisoner of war was burned alive.

You talk about this as if it were some kind of isolated case… The Internet is full of videos of Ukrainians shooting and maiming prisoners of war, beating parishioners and priests of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine, beating their own citizens resisting forced mobilization… Moreover, they are filming and The Ukrainians themselves post this video.
And this has been happening since the very first days of the war.

Yes, they even shot down a plane with 70 of their prisoners, whom the Russians were taking for exchange (and this was a standard exchange procedure and they simply could not help but know who was on the plane). They shelled their camps containing prisoners of war.

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Eastern Europe in the modern era has been a brutal place to fight. After the 'Miracle on the Vistula' in 1920 the Russians in the northern sector retreated into East Prussia because they had committed so many atrocities moving through Poland they knew there would be retribution.

We all know what the Eastern Front was like in World War II. I'd hope that since the Russians hadn't been in a major war since Afghanistan in 1980, they might have changed. Sadly, they haven't.

Ukrainian Nazis don't know any other way:

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Those who have read or studied WW2 agree that on the Western Front the Nazis militarily showed themselves to be true murderous barbarians… anyone can answer the question whether the Nazis showed much greater barbaric murderous behavior than their English, French, Americans, etc counterparty.

What is not so easy to answer is whether the Nazis were worse than the Russians in that regard.

In this particular case, due to motivation, revenge or simply because it is in their DNA, the Russians cannot in any way be considered more humanitarian in their behavior.

Unfortunately, more than 80 years have passed since this horrible war and the Russians have continued to show the same behavior.

And we are talking about the military issue… not about what the Nazis or Russians did to civilians…

Therefore, the atrocities that they show us in this war are a reflection of that barbaric and murderous "attitude" and that means that nothing can surprise us anymore.

To make matters worse… in this war… the invader is very clear.

Armand

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Only a mentally ill person can compare Russians and Nazis. Did the Russians make soap out of people? Did the Russians make household items from human skin? Did the Russians fertilize the fields with the ashes of burned people? Did the Russians destroy thousands of villages with their entire population? Did the Russians create concentration camps for children?
Only spiritualized Europeans are capable of this… The superior race.

Oh yes, Russian barbarians… I showed you a video of Ukrainian atrocities. Show me the same irrefutable video of Russian atrocities. Not propaganda in the media, not stories of "eyewitnesses" – show me the real facts. If you can…

Katyn springs to mind, and the Russian treatment of the Ukraine in the 30s. The russian mentality is summed up when a Russian Officer visiting the UN in Cyprus in the early 70s, as the Northern Ireland problem was kicking off, asked my father why we did not simply maching gun the protesters on the streets of Belfast rather than trying to arrest them.

"Only a normal person can compare Russian and the Nazis" There changed it for you,

Tally Ho!

The problem with Katyn is that there is no evidence that the Russians did it. And the "evidence" that was presented is outright fakes that do not stand up to criticism. The funny thing is that they were made by the Russians themselves in the 90s, in order to denigrate and overthrow the Communist Party. Then the KGB produced a huge number of such fakes.. It's easy to put an end to this matter – conduct a trial according to all the rules, consider the available evidence, listen to the defense and the prosecutor…. But for some reason, with an international court when accusing Russia there is always a snag…
Although there was a trial. The Nuremberg Tribunal considered this case and considered insufficient evidence in this case against any of the parties. All. Until new evidence is presented and there is a new trial in court, the perpetrators have not been identified.
By the way, I was extremely surprised when the Poles, who had been claiming for many years that the Russians were to blame for the death of their president and the high-ranking military and officials accompanying him, suddenly admitted that the Russians were not to blame. But the effect of such accusations has long played a role, putting a brick in the wall between Russia and the West…
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The problem with the famine of the 1930s is that it affected not only Ukrainians, but also hundreds of thousands of people in other regions of Russia. And also in Western Ukraine, which at that time was part of Poland.
And in general, a problem arose throughout the world due to a terrible drought and the overlapping problems of the Great Depression. But it is not customary to talk about this in the West – drought in Western countries is separate, and famine caused by the same drought in the USSR is a crime of the communists…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl
And the most interesting thing is that it was not the Russians who led the USSR. Stalin and Beria were Georgians, Khrushchev was Ukrainian, all the local leaders in Ukraine were Ukrainians… What do Russians have to do with it? Maybe it makes sense to interpret this as the occupation of Russia by foreign communists who were engaged in genocide of the Russian people? Did Ukrainians play one of the first roles in this matter?
This is of course sarcasm…

A Russian prisoner of war was burned alive.

That is a war crime. Like so many others that are occurring in this conflict. However, most will go unpunished …

As well as that sort of action plays into the enemy's, i.e. Putin's narrative about this war.

Cuprum is here with famous fake photos and fake stories again. Lies like Putin.
Today ruZZians deliberately bombed a children's hospital in Kiev.
RuZZians are Nazi.

All data on such crimes is recorded by the prosecutor's office, examinations are carried out, and witnesses from local residents and Ukrainian prisoners of war are interviewed. An investigation is underway.

The same thing happens with regard to Russian military personnel who have committed crimes. Most recently, last month, Lieutenant Colonel Irek Magasumov, Hero of Russia, deputy commander of the 74th separate motorized rifle brigade, was convicted. The military tribunal sentenced him to a maximum security prison sentence of 11 years, and also stripped him of all awards and titles for the murder of an 18-year-old Ukrainian girl.

Sho Boki, as intentionally as the Ukrainians bombed the beach in Crimea?

"You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." /Abraham Lincoln/

Beach was result of ruZZian PVO and was admitted by ruZZians as such before denial.
Children's hospital was destroyed by ruZZian rockets which were failed to shot down by Ukraine.

And you are right – you cannot fool all the people all the time. Not anymore.

The missile was said to hypersonic, so could not be shot down.

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Katyn- Says the NKVD did the massacre.

Anyone has tried to argue with a trully Nazi?… specially in the years they were at the top of their short life?… well… if you want to know what would that discussion be like… tried to discuss the Ukranian invation with Cuprum 2…

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Happy Gulash vacations…!

Armand

Katyn was a Russian war crime … All the evidence makes that clear … Too many are trying to rewrite history, to suit their narrative. We have a lot of that going even in the USA …

What I want to know since this Russian liberation army claims to have every right to invade a sovereign nation, why do they continue to kill children? Are children's hospitals targets for the Russian's? You can no longer steal them across the border, so might as well launch missles at them?

35thOVI, the Ukrainian side claims that it was a Kh-101 cruise missile (there is a video of the missile hitting the hospital). On the missile's route is the Kiev Zhulyany airport, used for military aircraft. The missile was probably shot down on its way to the airport and fell on the hospital. There were no hypersonic "Daggers" there.

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jsmcc91, I do not see any direct evidence that would clearly confirm the guilt of the USSR for the destruction of prisoners of war.
Could the Soviets shoot prisoners of war? Quite. Could the German Nazis have done this? Without a doubt – they have done this many times.
When we talk about this case, always keep in mind that for various reasons, many parties were (and still are) interested in blaming the Soviet side, including the authorities of the late USSR and modern Russia (until recently).
Without a comprehensive trial, it is now impossible to establish the truth.

Tango01, the problem with Wikipedia in such matters is that you can post any information there, citing any published source. Even if such a source is clearly false.
And even if we assume that this is true (although most of the facts cited do not have not only irrefutable evidence – just no evidence other than dubious newspaper articles) – all this pales in comparison to the deliberate policy of exterminating the "inferior races" and creating factories for killing people.

In any case, just as modern Germany does not bear direct responsibility for the crimes of the Nazi regime, so Russia does not bear direct responsibility for the crimes of the USSR. This is a different country.
And let's stick to the given topic – war crimes in Ukraine. Otherwise, if you delve into the history of almost any country, you can find a lot of bad things there.

THE SECRET SOVIET GENOCIDE OF WWII

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Kyiv children's hospital evacuated after power and oxygen supplies lost in missile strike; Italy accuses Russia of war crime – live

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The BIG difference between Modern German and Russia today is that it has become very clear that nothing has changed on the part of the Russians since WW2…

The Germans have indeed shown how a civilized country should behave regardless of their previous barbarism… but Rusia have even gotten worse because I don't remember reading about the kidnapping of children with the special objective of turning them into good Russian Patriots like you are doing since day one…

Real Face of the Ruzzian regiment

YouTube link

Armand

Listen to him, praising the attack on children, then telling us that Ukraine targeted civilians on a beach. He is too Russian to understand the truth, Russian images showing the missile debris from the beach show elements of Russian AD missile, not a Ukrainian missile.

Calls the Ukrainians Nazis, less than 2% voted for right wing parties in the last election. Meanwhile in the 30s and autocratic dictator who murdered political opponents used the argument that "Germans" living in adjacent countries were being prosecuted because of their nationality to invade and subjugate those countries, murdering civilians as he did so.

Substitute 2000s for 30s, and "Russians" for Germans to see the true Nazis,

Tally Ho!

jsmmc +1

nick +1

How dare the Ukranians put a childrens hospital in the trajectory of a Russian missile!
Does anyone other than ardent Stalinists believe that it was the NKVD who carried out the Katyn massacres. I cannnot remember who but either Yeltsin or Gorbachev admitted that it was the Soviets who were responsible.
Apparently Stalin had lists of the Poles who had thwarted him in the Russo- Polish War in 1921.

Back to the original post.

I believe both sides are committing atrocities. They both did in previous wars. The longer this goes on, the worse the atrocities will be. It is the nature of war and mankind, and it has not always been just the Russians and Ukrainians.

"In any case, just as modern Germany does not bear direct responsibility for the crimes of the Nazi regime, so Russia does not bear direct responsibility for the crimes of the USSR. This is a different country."

Then get out of the USSR's Security Council seat. And Koenigsburg. And Ukraine, as the borders were agreed to by Russia. Russia does not need Lebensraum.

nickinsomerset +1

BenFromBrooklyn ++1

A new modern phrase: "Lying like a Russian…"

Armand

Do you have anything other than cheap propaganda? ;-)

Ukraine has been attacking hospitals since 2014 (I recently posted a video from 2014 – I can post it again if necessary). Why didn't this bother you? Because you don't care about Russian hospitals – are you only interested in Ukrainian ones?
Please note the shooting dates:

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Is that enough or do you need more? Over the eight years of shelling of Donbass cities, many such videos have accumulated.

There is no kidnapping of children – there is an evacuation of children from the combat zone. Children are already being returned (several of them so far) to their parents and legal representatives – but now this is difficult, since the necessary documents are often missing, and communication between the services of Russia and Ukraine is extremely difficult, and parents often cannot personally appear for their children. Do you want to give your children away to someone unknown and on unknown grounds? That's not how it's done. All children will be returned after the end of hostilities.

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Are they being made into Russian patriots? No, they are simply taught in Russian schools according to Russian programs. Sorry, in Russia they cannot teach children Nazism, as they do in Ukraine.

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Imagine – there are Nazis in Russia too. They found several people for the entire Russian army – we are very far from Ukraine, where brigades are already being formed from them.

BenFromBrooklyn, immediately after Ukraine returns the territories received from it to Poland, and Poland to Germany. Do you want to review the results of World War II?

nickinsomerset, how many years did the countries affected by the German attack shoot at their fellow German citizens with cannons before Hitler attacked them?

Was there Russian rocket debris on the beach? And who among the officials or the major press announced this – besides you, of course, and some liar-blogger?

Tango01, what exactly and where exactly did I lie? Please prove with facts that I told a lie.

Cuprum are you really that low on your arguments (and lack of history knowledge?) A Baldenkreuz is not a nazi symbol… by the way 2024 German army is still using this symbol.

By the way the Russian are so stupid that by trying to demonstrate that the missile was not Russian they showed the exact match of a Kh-101 on the hospital.

And it seems that basic logic is something that left all Russian.

"Do you have anything other than cheap propaganda? ;-)"

That is hilarious coming from a Russian,

Tally Ho!

greatpatton, Baldenkreuz is indeed not a Nazi symbol. It is a symbol of the Wehrmacht – the army of Nazi Germany (and no other). If you have poor eyesight, then take a closer look at the modern German symbol on the equipment – perhaps then you will still see some differences from the Wehrmacht symbol of the Second World War))) Also, Baldenkreuz is not a symbol of the Ukrainian army.
The conclusions are obvious to you and everyone else – the Ukrainian Azov brigade and other Nazi units are cosplaying as the Wehrmacht. And they do this precisely because they want to emphasize their ideology, despite the fact that they are trying to prohibit them from doing this…

Yes, it was stupid (I'm talking about the rocket that fell on the hospital). And in general, the desire to justify something to the hostile West is stupid. This is war and such accidents are inevitable. The West, which destroyed many hospitals (and other civilian facilities and residential buildings) during bombings in other independent countries, never considered it necessary to justify itself…
Remember how NATO attacked the Dr. Dragisa Misovic clinic in Belgrade with cruise missiles on May 20, 1999?

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But this, of course, was an unfortunate mistake… But if the Russians had done this, then it would have been a crime ;-)

This is war and such accidents are inevitable.

One childrens hospital might be an error. But Russians hit a maternity center on the same day.

"This is war and such accidents are inevitable."

No, this is an attack from a terrorist country on a sovereign country. There is no defending what the Russians have done. Cuprum, to continuously come on here and defend and deflect shows your true character.

Bill +1

jsmcc +1

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Excerpt:

Several independent investigations, including one conducted by the United Nations (UN) Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine (HRMMU), concluded that a Russian missile struck the Kyiv City Okhmatdyt Children's Hospital on July 8 amid continued official Russian denials and deflections. The HRMMU assessed on July 9 that the Okhmatdyt strike "was likely caused by a direct hit from a Russian missile."[35] Open-source investigations conducted by Molfar, Bellingcat, and a Ukrainian reserve officer for the Ukrainian outlet Euromaidan Press concluded that a Russian Kh-101 cruise missile struck the hospital.[36] The investigations cited visual characteristics of the Kh-101 model that are consistent with clear footage of the missile seconds before its impact. Ukraine called a meeting of the UN Security Council (UNSC) on July 9 to discuss the Okhmatdyt strike, and several international officials condemned Russia for so blatantly striking a civilian object.[37] Russian officials and commentators, however, continue to deny Russian responsibility for the strike or blame it on an errant Ukrainian air defense missile, despite the growing body of documentation to the contrary.[38] Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova claimed that a Ukrainian NASAMS air defense missile struck the Okhmatdyt hospital and accused Ukraine of using the strike for informational effect to "further escalate" the war.[39] Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov claimed that a Ukrainian missile hit Okhmatdyt and called it a "PR operation in blood."[40] A former pro-Russian Ukrainian Rada deputy attempted to justify the strike by claiming that Ukrainian forces had an air defense headquarters in the area.[41] These Russian claims are baseless and refuted by the aforementioned visual evidence and open-source investigations, and as ISW stated on July 8, do not absolve Russian forces of legal or moral responsibility for the impacts of the strike on Okhmatdyt.[42]

Damon.

"Maria Zakharova claimed that a Ukrainian NASAMS air defense missile struck the Okhmatdyt hospital and accused Ukraine of using the strike for informational effect to "further escalate" the war"

A totally unnecessary war started and perpetuated by Kremlin Nazis trying to rebuild a defunct empire, does not need any more escalation,

Tally Ho!

The "Ukrainians are Nazis" thing is a smokescreen, a handwave by Putin to justify invasion. It's stupid to push that meme. Putin felt the US would be weak if it attacked, given Biden's statement that the US wouldn't respond to a "limited incursion" by Russia into Ukraine. He misjudged both the Russian Army's capabilities, and the Ukrainian will to fight and resist invasion.

There is no defending what the Russians have done. Cuprum, to continuously come on here and defend and deflect shows your true character.

Indeed -- but having said that, there is also no defending Ukraine if its soldiers are also committing war crimes. Neither the US not NATO should tolerate war crimes by the Ukrainians, and it certainly only continues to galvanize Russian public support for the war and we know it also leads to more death as soldiers on both sides refuse to surrender if they know they may be summarily executed.

No excuses. Investigate. Hold those committing war crimes accountable.

Even during the American Civil War, during Sherman's deliberate scorched earth "March to the Sea," Union soldiers caught committing murder or rape were hung. And while the treatment of POWs in our Civil War was always contentious, the summary execution of prisoners of war without a military tribunal could result in the hanging of the perpetrators.

SB,

Never once said I condoned any of the war crimes on either side. My statement was directed toward the continuous sabre rattling and condoning of attacking Ukraine. The Russians deliberately are targeting civilians. A children's hospital? They lost Dr. Lukianchuk who disregarded what was going on to go and help babies who were hooked up to dialysis. They couldn't be moved, but she was killed by the blast. Children and doctors. What wonderful targets Putin.

@jsmcc91, I never said you did. I'm just saying that we shouldn't permit the ally we are funding and controlling, to let war crimes go unpunished or become SOP.