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03 Jul 2024 8:09 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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79thPA Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 6:33 a.m. PST

I heard about this on a FB site I belong to.

link

Micman Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 7:31 a.m. PST

Well that explains the 2 sales from them that happened recently.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian03 Jul 2024 8:06 a.m. PST

Shapeways has ceased operations and filed for bankruptcy ‘after considering all strategic alternatives.'

The publicly listed company published a Form 8-K on July 2nd, 2024, detailing that it has filed a voluntary petition for relief under the provisions of Chapter 7 of Title 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code. Filing for bankruptcy in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware, Shapeways has confirmed each of its subsidiaries have also ceased operations and filed for bankruptcy….

TCT Magazine: link

Grattan54 Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 10:02 a.m. PST

So many companies that are closing.
The golden age maybe coming to an end.

Schogun03 Jul 2024 10:13 a.m. PST

Their prices got too high and home 3D printer prices got lower.

MG Lawson03 Jul 2024 11:33 a.m. PST

Yep, they didn't give any warning to us store owners either…fortunately I can still print for my customers with my resin printers, but many are overseas so shipping will be a bear. Looks like I gotta get a website up and running finally.

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 12:23 p.m. PST

They used the laser and powder 3D printing techniques and printers. The results were cutting edge, a number of years ago. The quality was decent, but the prices were quite high. They had a huge catalog of products they would print, on demand. The home user resin printers, especially the 4k/8k varieties, really cut their legs off. Their powder printers cost 10's to 100's of Thousands of Dollars to buy (still sold, but now 4k-10k Dollars for most powder printing machines), and making a profit off of their on-demand print sales, was tough.

Their catalog included many obscure models, which were not profitable to make molds and castings from, but one-off, on-demand 3D prints were easy to make, with no overhead. Unfortunately, the demand was too low to make a profit.

This is really sad. Shapeways used to be at the tip of the spear for 3D printing. Unfortunately, technology advanced, 3D printer prices dropped, leaving them hanging with their immense investment in machines that had become outdated and outmoded.

I am not surprised, but I am saddened by this. Cheers!

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 1:30 p.m. PST

Yep, they didn't give any warning to us store owners either…fortunately I can still print for my customers with my resin printers, but many are overseas so shipping will be a bear. Looks like I gotta get a website up and running finally.
That's comforting. I would hate to see BWN shutter forever. Email on the way.

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 3:03 p.m. PST

We just getting started. Info here: link

Though we are focused solely upon 1/144th North Africa to start with.

The H Man03 Jul 2024 6:11 p.m. PST

Someone tell him his links not active.

Maybe this is the beginning of the end for 3d printing? One can hope.

It is a real world example of what can happen.

I think the same thing cripples a lot of home printer attempts.

We may be just over the peak?? Of every man and his dog buying a 3d printer.

Then they can't get them working/better ones come out, so they just buy figures like a normal person.

I pitty anyone who bought the magazine partwork. By the end you would have an expensive and obsolete 3d printer.

Feels like an industry (retail 3d printer sales) relying on whales.

A few die hards pay for the momentary interest of the rest.

Actually, like newer tech possibly killing shapeways, other factors could affect 3d printing.

One example is their use for figures no one makes.

However, this can show traditional outfits figures that are now selling, thus they can be produced traditionally with a real market interest.

Thus one advantage may turn to bite them.

Among others.

Interesting stuff.

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2024 6:21 p.m. PST

link Thanks H Man.

If we had to use multiple home style printers that would be such a pain!

captaincold6903 Jul 2024 9:07 p.m. PST

LOL….I was waiting for H Man to come in here with his anti- 3D printing ;)

N Drury03 Jul 2024 9:40 p.m. PST

Presumably many of the designers who sold via Shapeways will move over to platforms such as Wargaming3d.com

Titchmonster03 Jul 2024 11:25 p.m. PST

Bleeped text it! Move on.. it happens in every industry. Why should wargaming be any different. Sad, maybe but tragic no. Next man up.

The H Man04 Jul 2024 1:14 a.m. PST

"Thanks H Man"

No problemo.

"LOL….I was waiting for H Man to come in here with his anti- 3D printing ;)"

Thanks. Sometimes I feel like the guy who turns up late to a super hero fight. Like Casey Jones or something.

Perhaps the clue was in their bleeding prints?

The white sintered stuff, right?

Personal logo jensutkremp Supporting Member of TMP04 Jul 2024 5:05 a.m. PST

Bleeped text happens, but sometimes companies with wrong decisions will leave. Other services like i.materialise.com are running.

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jul 2024 6:13 a.m. PST

> the beginning of the end for 3d printing

No way. 3d printing just starts. In due time, it will replace many manufacturing processes. Those will moldable single material are just the first to get hit, just like Bookshops got hurt by Amazon.

I got my 12k printer for around $600 USD up and running last autumn, and the results are better then anything I ever bought from casting or outside printing. Not printing for anybody else but me, but I practically ceased buying miniatures (from around $400 USD/month into the 50-100 range for collectibles like Mithril).

I assume we will see many companies go soon. Color printing hitting the affordable range will be the next impact, and this is just the gaming sector.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP04 Jul 2024 6:37 a.m. PST

Interesting discussion – I have to say, I got a guy locally who does great 3-D printing for my 20mm WWII vehicles

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jul 2024 7:57 a.m. PST

I think we're going to see the end of casting as we know it, and soon.

Baueda has already switched and now sells 3D prints. Mantic is releasing STLs of their Armada ship models as well as selling kits.

There will be an old guard that keeps buying castings, but eventually designers will just sell STLs and people will print what they need. The economics are simply too compelling, and once the printers are more plug and play, there will be no reason not to switch. Even those who can't have one will have friends who do.

3D printing is fast and cheap. Plus, there is no postage with STLs. So a designer in New Zealand can sell to gamers in Poland as cheaply as Wellington. Even domestically, in the US the minimum cost to ship you castings is about $5 USD if it's a small order, and it doesn't get shipped too far.

In addition you can do mods to the file like an old kit bash but get as many as you want. Want to turn that spearman into a swordsman? Learn a little 3D modeling. And then you can print 50. Have an army in "true 15" you want to add to. Just print to match. Want your hero just a tad larger than his friends? Just print at 105%.

Games Workshop will hold on for a while because of the tournament scene. But how long will you be able to charge $45 USD for 2 or 3 plastic figures when you can buy STLs and print for 1/10 that? Maybe they'll get super premium prices for their STLs?

I have a filament printer for terrain and I'm eyeing a resin one this fall for figures. Not that I really buy many figures, but I do enjoy painting even if my armies are all "complete."

I would guess in 10 years, if not sooner, mail order as we know it now will be all but dead.

epturner04 Jul 2024 3:36 p.m. PST

Crap. I was hoping to get the vessels for the Cod Wars…

I suppose this means I was not supposed to buy them.

Eric

The H Man04 Jul 2024 7:45 p.m. PST

"No way. 3d printing just starts. In due time, it will replace many manufacturing processes"

Fake news.

"Those will moldable single material are just the first to get hit, just like Bookshops got hurt by Amazon."

Actually Amazon was selling books.

Unless your talking about digital books (whatever they are)?

Books are still made, in quantity. It's more online shopping that has hurt book stores, not digital. Books are still being made.

"I assume we will see many companies go soon."

Fake news.

"Color printing hitting the affordable range will be the next impact"

Not really.

I don't think hobbyists would want to just scrap half the hobby.

You can buy excellent pre-made cars and planes, for over a century.

Doesn't stop people glueing their fingers together and spilling paint everywhere.

S**t, they sell matchstick construction kits with instructions!

Unpainted figures and paints are going nowhere.

"I think we're going to see the end of casting as we know it, and soon."

Fake news.

There are many metal only outfits still going strong.

Plastic casting too.

"there is no postage with STLs."

Good luck printing them out of thin air.

*Want to turn that spearman into a swordsman? Learn a little 3D modeling."

Or don't, and convert it like a normal person.

"Games Workshop will hold on for a while because of the tournament scene. But how long will you be able to charge $45.00 USD USD for 2 or 3 plastic figures when you can buy STLs and print for 1/10 that? Maybe they'll get super premium prices for their STLs?"

GW don't sell files. And knock offs aren't what many people want.

"but I do enjoy painting"

I hope you'll enjoy colour 3d printing just as much, apparently.

"I would guess in 10 years, if not sooner, mail order as we know it now will be all but dead."

Fake news.

Anyone know how to get a Trump clip up?

Garand04 Jul 2024 8:26 p.m. PST

Please don't.

Damon.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP04 Jul 2024 9:30 p.m. PST

Not until I can scan a figure and then hit the print button and an exact copy is turned out will I consider buying a 3D printer.

monk2002uk04 Jul 2024 10:30 p.m. PST

I won't scan a figure from a manufacturer but have done so with terrain models that I have scratch-built. There is an example of the process illustrated here:

link

Robert

Martin Rapier04 Jul 2024 11:24 p.m. PST

I just don't need that much stuff any more, so I'm very happy to pay other people to print stuff for me.

monk2002uk04 Jul 2024 11:54 p.m. PST

With permission from one of the companies that produces 6mm metal figures, I have scanned WW1 figures and created STL files. The 3D models were fitted with Colliders, which enabled them to be deployed on a virtual battlefield and moved around as if they are physical models. This was during the pandemic, when online gaming became more widespread.

Robert

The H Man05 Jul 2024 1:16 a.m. PST

"Please don't."

Top notch.

But, go on, just one (then 4 more!).

Yeah, the 3d printing mob are forgetting actual sculpting.

That would have to be scanned, fixed, then printed.

Far easier to simply mould and cast as per forever.

Beauty in simplicity.

Add to all this that kids are likely going to have less online exposure going forward, so shop shelves will become more important for both advertising and sales.

I miss the milsims catalogue. Perhaps we may yet see a return of such things.

I can tell you what they had on special in 2000, doubt anyone could say the same for 2020

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2024 8:16 a.m. PST

I remember 25+ years ago, a friend showed me his pirate figures he cast from molds he'd made himself. This is not a terribly difficult thing to do, unfortunately.

I remember there was much hand-wringing about how people would just make their own molds, and cast their copies of figures, bankrupting figure making companies by only buying a single copy of a figure, then making armies of them, using their RTV silicone molds they made themselves…

It never happened. The quality of my friend's copied figures, gravity cast, were decent, and he saved a lot of money that would have gone to GW. He moved away shortly after that, and I never gamed with him and his figures after that.

The figure making companies survived that, I suspect they will survive the 3D printing for a good many years, as well. The 3D printed figures I've purchased have all proven to be quite brittle, and quite easily broken! I know there are less brittle resins available, but no figure printers seem to be using them, at present, due to their higher cost.

This has turned me away from most 3D printed miniatures. I've broken 90% of the 3D resin figures I've purchased, when painting them. Technology is improving every day, but it hasn't reached high enough, yet, to supplant the gaming industry as we know it. Cheers!

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP05 Jul 2024 8:39 a.m. PST

With regard to sculpting, the 3D revolution is already upending parts of the hobby.

3D sculpting has been around for quite a while. Numerous manufacturers including Brigade Models and the Perrys use it. Sculpt, print, then make molds (or tooling in the case of plastics).

The huge difference here is cost. A hobbyist can design a model he or she wants. Say, some obscure Romanian ambulance from 1952. Prints off the one he wants. If he wanted to sell castings he needs a spin caster and has to make a mold. He can outsource the casting but a mold is at least $100. USD And now he has to go into the mail order business. OR

He puts the STL file online, and anyone who wants that model downloads it and prints it.

Yes, metal/resin outfits are going strong. For now. But you do know there are now 3D printers that print in metal? Out of reach cost wise but not forever.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2024 9:45 a.m. PST

"Unless your[sic] talking about digital books (whatever they are)?"

H Man, if you truly don't know what digital books are, and can't find anything useful on line, ask a question. There are people who can help you. More commonly that "whatever they are" routine seems to be a way of expressing contempt for something without naming a specific problem or objection. That's unhelpful.

As for the predicted demise of 3D printing, I know you have business ambitions. Please don't confuse professionally what you would like to have happen with what is likely to happen. My guess is that I'm "center mass" for cast armies, and I'm 71. My son is cranking out figures for my grandsons on his 3D printer. I can see figure casting continuing, but as a niche market. You're going to have to find something which can't be done as well or better by 3D printing.

colkitto05 Jul 2024 3:21 p.m. PST

@epturner

The Cod Wars vessels are a loss indeed. Just shows the old folk wisdom is true: never resist buying something that appeals to you!

captaincold6905 Jul 2024 5:59 p.m. PST

H Man is that guy yelling out the window "not in my backyard" at the 3d printing world :)

mildbill05 Jul 2024 6:27 p.m. PST

This whole hobby is a niche market. Good Metal figures have a charm that will always have a market, just limited even more.

The H Man05 Jul 2024 9:24 p.m. PST

"bankrupting figure making companies by only buying a single copy of a figure, then making armies of them, using their RTV silicone molds they made themselves…

It never happened. "

100%.

Just like putting wizards of the coast out of business by printing cards at home, which is easy to do, you don't even need to buy one.

"Technology is improving every day, "

Including traditional casting materials/equipment.

"With regard to sculpting, the 3D revolution is already upending parts of the hobby."

That's computer programming, not sculpting.

"3D sculpting has been around for quite a while. "

Yes, thousands of years.

"Perrys use it."

Last I checked, a while ago, they were still sculpting and then pantographing by hand.

"He puts the STL file online, and anyone who wants that model downloads it and prints it."

But value is lost as the end user has to fork out for materials, and at retail not wholesale prices.

Then the file is expected to be cheaper.

Both parties lose.

" (whatever they are)?"

I mean a lot of people don't use them and they haven't destroyed publishing.

"Please don't confuse professionally what you would like to have happen with what is likely to happen. "

I'm not.

If I saw it that way I'd jump on the band wagon.

I am just going by the facts and history to predict a likely out come.

"You're going to have to find something which can't be done as well or better by 3D printing."

Sculpted and cast figures could be a good start.

Not rocket science.

"3d printing world"

It's more a bubble some people choose to live in.

I'm whispering, it just echoes in there.

"just limited even more."

Not really.

3d printing, for one example among other, is drawing in plenty of new randoms.

Once in people will move around, so metal may actually see a rise in popularity, once those people get bored and take a look around.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2024 2:16 a.m. PST

I always found Shapeways too expensive, lacked flexibility and the website was too hard to navigate. Vendors on Etsy generally have reasonable prices, good selection, and will accommodate special requests.

Personal logo jensutkremp Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2024 2:18 a.m. PST

In my opinion it is completely unnecessary to scan figures from existing series and then print them out.

There are now fantastic figure modelers who offer STL figures. These are often much better than figures that are cast. Why? Because the master figures for tin casting or plastic injection molding have to meet completely different requirements, key word: mold separation.

Models modeled for 3D printing do not have to take this into account and are much more realistic. my 5cts

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2024 7:09 a.m. PST

Old Contemptible said, "Vendors on Etsy generally have reasonable prices, good selection, and will accommodate special requests."

This is absolutely true! This is one of the largest attractions, for me, to Etsy vendors.

I needed laser-cut MDF equilateral triangles for a d20 globe project. I needed them to be a very specific size for my project. I contacted an Etsy vendor, and they made exactly what I needed. I knew it was possible, having worked with a carpenter in the past, on a laser cutter.

The same thing is true with 3D model printing: an Etsy vendor can scale them up/down a bit, and print them for you, easily. I don't need another hobby (3D printing is an entire hobby unto itself), so I will order one-off models, if I need to. The brittle UV-cured resin is the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger. Cheers!

monk2002uk06 Jul 2024 10:59 a.m. PST

Sgt Slag, you may find that a vendor will print in a different resin for you. There are flexible resins, for example, which can work all the way down to 6mm figures in my experience.

Robert

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2024 6:27 p.m. PST

Shapeways got greedy and priced themselves out of the market.

I've been wondering for a while how they were supporting price sensitive markets with manufacturing operations based in New York City and Amsterdam. Neither is exactly what you would call a low cost venue.

The H Man06 Jul 2024 7:22 p.m. PST

"In my opinion it is completely unnecessary to scan figures from existing series and then print them out.

There are now fantastic figure modelers who offer STL figures"

!

The less I say the better.

It speaks for itself.

Oh, well.

So, artists are now not necessary, because someone bought a computer?

Wow.

"Models modeled for 3D printing do not have to take this into account"

They don't have to take anything into account.

They just need some image of a render and people will apparently buy it.

This is something cgi has screwed up in film too.

It's the limitations that force people to become great at what they do.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

"We choose to go to the moon, in this decade, and do these other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

(Hope I got that about right)

It really seems all kids do is get weaker with each generation.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP07 Jul 2024 1:34 a.m. PST

I had been looking forever for a 28mm armored train for the 2nd Boer War. Couldn't find one anywhere except on Etsy. It was printed and sent to me and the engine and cars were very well packaged with each car sealed in its clear plastic bag.

But I needed some open cars about an inch longer to accommodate two bases. No problem, they were printed and sent to me and they are perfect. The guy had 28mm tracks! Where do you find 28mm tracks? I usually have to make do with O scale train track.

monk2002uk07 Jul 2024 7:28 a.m. PST

It's fun creating 3D sculpts. Someone on another group was wondering about early stern paddle British gunboats in the Sudan campaign, specifically for 6mm figures. Sounded interesting. Here is my work-in-progress on a Tamai class gunboat. Hopefully you get the idea…

In the past, I would have sent this to Shapeways for a one-off build. That is before getting a resin printer.

Robert

UshCha07 Jul 2024 11:53 p.m. PST

To be hones Shapeways was failing its customers amd suppliers. Places like My Minifactory sel models prints that are cheaper and better thab Shapeways. The loss is mainly for US folk as Shapeways had a presence in the US. Europe to US post is just rediculus,

I can get stuff from all over the wolrd cheaper than from the US. Australia and the US have daft post prices.

H man life is tuff, we stopped using your favorite Quill pens then horror of Horrors the sliderule was replaced by those "nastiy" plasic calculator things, now casting is on it's way out.

Look on the brite side though, my 3D printer has lost its main job. It now does more DIY than wargame models, the model printing quantity is still the same but the DIY uses have a bigger print time now. Now you can claim nobody buys printers for models, they are really just a hated DIY tool. This should make you feel far happier.

The H Man08 Jul 2024 1:22 a.m. PST

"This should make you feel far happier"

Well, your attitude doing the work for me sure does.

monk2002uk08 Jul 2024 5:38 a.m. PST

It has taken a long time to become familiar with 3D sculpting. Computer Assisted Design (CAD) software was fairly straightforward to learn for basic shapes. Most models of vehicles and buildings, for example, are not 'basic'. Slowly but surely the effort has become easier, not least because I have libraries of tyres, etc. I have more experience with the effects of scale now. Gun barrels, for example, have to be more chunky for 1/285th scale vehicles and guns versus 1/56th scale.

Figures are a quantum difference again. Sculpting software often behaves like physical sculpting, with 'clay' objects used as the basic sculpting 'material' in the application. I have enjoyed working with Green Stuff and similar in the past. Manipulating a 3D model in a 2D view is quite different! Respect to those who produce the most amazing 3d sculpts!!

Shapeways was always helpful as a way to check the integrity of my models, particularly things like non-manifold edges for example. It didn't cost anything. Thankfully I don't need this functionality now because I am better at avoiding the problem in the first place and I know how to troubleshoot mesh integrity problems.

Robert

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2024 6:22 a.m. PST

When I use one of my Ahsoka Tano figures in a game, I will remember Shapeways. I had been looking for one for ages and they had it!

crashtestdummy09 Jul 2024 6:27 a.m. PST

Shapeways failed because of the growth of home printing. Too high prices and overheads which could not be offset in the face of cheap good quality printers for private/home use. I never purchased anything from them, mostly on economic grounds, but also with an eye to some negative reviews. Basic economics. They are not in any way a symptom of declining interest in 3D printing – rather the reverse: it's not niche or specialist any more, so they have no selling point.

    There are always those whose circumstances preclude individual take-up: a few years ago every high street had a printers or photo-copy shop (UK) – now "everyone" has their own printer, or at least access to one. There used to be internet cafés: now they're called … cafés, and everyone brings their laptop/tablet or alternative device. More local solutions will emerge (perhaps replacing the photocopier in your newsagents with a 3D printer), or more of your friends will have one.
      Same old song: same old audience. The naysayers want see something as a passing fad because it disturbs their cosy little existence and scream "fake news" just like DJT. Just like all deniers, it's diversionary, 'cos these are things he doesn't want to believe himself, or doesn't want you to believe. I do wonder why anyone who is so antipathetic to all things 3D printing bothers to "contribute" to the board at all. What's next – "witch hunt"! – or just more nonsensical witterings from a Trump-like figure and anyone deploying the "kids these days" argument because they are doing something you won't – or can't – do needs to get a life!
        There probably will always be space for an organisation like Shapeways – hopefully with a better business model – which the internet makes viable. They used to say 85% of computer use was word processing; I strongly doubt this is still the case, but text production continues. Much breath and ink was spilled over the problem of who could type – now texting/predictive text/voice activation fills the gap. I would not have purchased a resin printer if I had small children or pets to look out for, but pretty soon I expect there will be resins so safe you could drink 'em, and foolproof programmes to generate items/stls that a four year old could master. 3D scanners will be next. Remember printers are not here just for the modelling/gaming fraternity – real people use them for other things (like UshCha does). Shapeways just couldn't/didn't react quickly enough for the marketplace. Quality (resilience of printers and mouldings) and reliability/ease of use continues to improve: cost drops (unlike metal prices). I haven't bought a metal casting since I bought the printer! I also find it quite ironic how many metal casters use a 3D printer as part of the design/manufacturing process!
          Still, we don't really need to say "you're wrong; the future is coming" – I for one can smile and say "watch this space" – and print another battalion of miniatures I can't buy anywhere anyway, with no postage to pay and no package to wait for, at an equal (and known quality compared to metal casters OR 3D printing intermediaries), for a price I'm prepared to pay!
            Cheers
              Kev

              Personal logo jensutkremp Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2024 8:08 a.m. PST

              @crashtestdummy

              thumbs up. 100% agree

              The H Man09 Jul 2024 6:26 p.m. PST

              "perhaps replacing the photocopier in your newsagents with a 3D printer),"

              Yes, perhaps more 3d printers means more screen time.

              More screen time means more vision impairment.

              I can see newsagents printing braille news papers and magazines… Like in men in tights!

              "The naysayers want see something as a passing fad because it disturbs their cosy little existence and scream "fake news" just like DJT. "

              Umm…

              Isn't that what your doing?

              Only without the charisma and business acumen.

              "Trump-like figure"

              Cheers.

              "do needs to get a life!"

              Where as some need an education. Then sentences like that wouldn't happen.

              "but pretty soon I expect there will be resins so safe you could drink 'em, and foolproof programmes to generate items/stls that a four year old could master."

              Actually kids (12+, let's be realistic), have had casting kits for decades, plastic-ish, metal and others.

              "Remember printers are not here just for the modelling/gaming fraternity – real people use them…"

              Way to insult everyone here.

              "I also find it quite ironic how many metal casters use a 3D printer as part of the design/manufacturing process!"

              Entirely missing the point as to why, obviously.

              "print another battalion of miniatures I can't buy anywhere anyway, "

              Either free or stolen, I guess.

              Plenty of minis you can't get files for too.

              "no package to wait for, "

              Kind of sucks the fun out of things.

              "for a price I'm prepared to pay!"

              While many are not.

              "100% agree"

              Need I say more.

              UshCha10 Jul 2024 1:16 a.m. PST

              Hman,
              you seem to feel 'Free'IS SOMEHOW ANTI HOBBY, why? This is a hobby, not a bussnaess, we neither expect to make a profit of any significance from it as a player. Many hobbyists give there time and effort for the benerfit of the Hobby, for example:- Thousands in the UK give there time to help keep our herritage railways and great stately homes maintained, for free. Why is this bad for wargames?

              Yes we charge for our rules and we got paid AGAIN, we may have now paid for all the paper we scrapped off during its writing, You could say we have actually paid for our consuaables after 15 years! Does that make us errible folk as we have not ripped off our buyers and demanded to make as real terms proffit? To think that would ve a very sad view on life.

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