"GW Vs Mantic, Classic Vs 3d printing" Topic

This is an interesting one.

Mantic are selling 3d print files for selected models from it's range.

Very modern.

Games Workshop are selling more older metal and plastic figures with The old world. As well as other selected classic metal figures.

Two large/parallel companies taking two very different approaches.

GW had been doing cutting edge modern for decades, Warhammer, plastics, Finecast, CG engineered figures.

Mantic was sticking to various mixed media, metal, plastic, restic, resin, MDF, PVC, now 3d files. Still all over the place.

It's an interesting battle.

Will 3d printing win, or will classic metal?

I'd say it depends on if GW start releasing new sculpts in metal, that would be a major move.

When I joined this hobby in appx 2003, people were all talking about the coming demise of GW due to price hikes, ever-changing rules editions, and poor business strategies. I have watched this criticism continue without much abatement for over 20 years now, with all the while GW maintaining its lead as the largest miniatures company and a cash cow for its stockholders. I sincerely doubt Mantic's 3D printing strategy, whether it works for them or not, will matter much to GW.

That's not the point.

I guess the real test, as far as my topic is whether Mantic ever goes all 3d files, or if GW stops doing metal and older figures.

Or if it will pretty much reamain as is.

Already TOW appears to have all but disappeared from stores, sad to say.

While Mantic are letting you print plastics.

As far as my topic, it's not looking great for GW.

I hope the old world succeeds and replaces AOS. But it's not a great start.

There is method in GWs madness, I'm sure.

The bretonians and tomb king's are not typical fantasy, so are an odd choice from that perspective.

Also TK has many issues, like second hand gothic skeletons and leftie bowmen.

If anyone needed a new sprue it was the TK skeletons. But they get a bone dragon instead, because that's such an issue.

However, in five years they may have a new edition and be looking to revamp an army. Luckily TK got extra milage from the upgrade sprue and the gothic sprue. Perhaps there is some method there.

Also LOTR is still on shelves, just.

I long believe TOW is a licence free replacement for LOTR. LOTR has had no real releases for, years? So will soon be costing more than it's worth, as there is nothing new to produce and everyone has everything they want.

Far better to bring out an instant replacement that can be endlessly added to.

Obviously all TOW armies are the perfect LOTR replacements, with none used that are not on a par with LOTR, and non left not used.

Elves, elves.
Wood elves, woodelves.
Empire, Gondor.
Bretonia, Rohan.
Orcs, orcs.
Beastmen, orcy.
Chaos warriors, orcy/men.
Tomb king's, army of the dead.

You couldn't pick better LOTR replacements.

Once more armies are out that more people recognise, perhaps stores will carry more stock.

Well, I think you miss the point of GW's strategy with the Old World and what they are doing in conjunction with that: these metal re-releases and OW launch are easy money grabs because their customer base asked for it long and hard, and they acquiesced. It is not some sort of new strategy to help the company grow, etc. That is completely different from Mantic trying to grow their reach and expand by expanding into a new area.

Your comparisons in this regard are apples to oranges—GW has repeatedly said since mid-Kirby that they are models company that produces rules for a subset of their customer base, because a majority of their models are sold to people who never play, whereas Mantic is a wargaming company plain and simple. Whether that is true 40% or 60% isn't important, the result is that they have a different business model and priorities.

I keep wondering where the breakpoint is. At what point does the pricing directly lower the numbers? $400 USD for a starter kit, $500 USD? $750 USD Where do the numbers start falling off because it seems as though they never do.

LOTR is very much alive. They did big updates a few years ago on the major factions and have been working on the minor ones. Arnor is being updated this year (never really was meaningfully updated after they introduced it).

TOW and LOTR are radically different games in terms of mechanics. If GW wanted to replace LOTR with TOW virtually none of the LOTR players will switch over. Massed generic fantasy isn't what they're looking for.

TOW is answering a demand from fans after the success of the Total War Warhammer games and Mantic proving there was significant demand for massed generic fantasy. Kings of War is their cash cow. GW screwed up and ceded a market to Mantic who took full advantage. I think TOW is GW's quick way of trying to get back into that market. Mantic jumped into the fantasy skirmish with Vanguard and it barely made a blip. GW has that well covered between AoS. Note that the birth of AoS didn't kill LOTR because again different fan bases looking for different things.

GW has historically shown they'll kill a specialist game if it helps they're bottom line. The LOTR license has to be expensive. The fact that they haven't let it lapse must mean enough profit is being generated to justify it…at least as of the last time it was renewed.

"easy money grabs"

Not so.

On the face of it, sure.

However, they could have done that day 1 and stop so many people jumping ship, but didn't.

If it's just a money grab, then GW are in trouble.

It's LOTR, in part, I'm confident.

"they are models company"

Yet they went to all the fuss of changing the rules and losing customers in the process, while still using many of the same figures.

That suggests otherwise.

"At what point does the pricing directly lower the numbers?"

While people happily pay 000s for a new computer to play games, the sky's the limit.

But remember, both companies have cheap starters too.

"They did big updates a few years ago"

Thats a long time. Yet they do TOW instead of an update…

"TOW and LOTR are radically different games in terms of mechanics. If GW wanted to replace LOTR with TOW virtually none of the LOTR players will switch over. Massed generic fantasy isn't what they're looking for."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it…

Exactly the same as the change from FB to AOS.

Only the this time people asked for it (TOW, that is).

"Mantic proving there was significant demand for massed generic fantasy. Kings of War is their cash cow. GW screwed up and ceded a market to Mantic who took full advantage."

That's all day 1 stuff.

It's taken them this long to figure that out!!??

No, other things are at play here.

"I think TOW is GW's quick way of trying to get back into that market."

Quick!!?? Are you crazy!!?? It's been almost 20 years!

"AoS didn't kill LOTR because again different fan bases looking for different things."

A freaking new trilogy in production and to be released in 2 years, had nothing to do with it!!??

Also, AOS had no fan base.

"they're"

Their. And don't start that nonsense.

"at least as of the last time it was renewed."

Finally, a correct answer.

There is nothing new, unless it's made up, which is still absent.

It's only some die hards and a few new players.

Not enough for the licence, hence the board games attempt to scratch some cash. And clear cast undead. Cheap tricks of a failing line.

I do like it, but it's had it's run.

I regret posting on this thread…not because you're correct (you aren't…except for the grammatical error) but it's made TMP a less fun place to visit today. You clearly don't know what you're talking about with LOTR. The major faction updates were 2022-2023. Not exactly a long time ago. And TOW is a quick way back into the market because the miniatures already exist. Very low cost of reentry into that corner of the market (massed generic fantasy battles).

The mechanics and IP in MESBG draw a different set of gamers in than TOW. One friend of mine started out in WHFB back in the day then switched to Kings of War. Got him over to MESBG because he loves LOTR. He's not a skirmish gamer. Got a few friends who don't wargame but play RPGs. They jumped into MESBG because it feels like an RPG set in a universe they live. It's just different. I would assume as a modern company with data and analytics they'll pick up on some of this (I could be wrong about that) and recognize that replacing a beloved IP that works as an RPG-esque skirmish game with an old massed fantasy game is utterly moronic in terms of player base.

"not because you're correct (you aren't"

Actually, I did some fact checking in my replies there, so I kind of am.

The dates line up well.

The similarity between the races chosen for TOW are pretty obvious, so on.

Please be more specific will all my errors.

"You clearly don't know what you're talking about with LOTR"

Again, I fact checked, so please be more specific.

"MESBG draw a different set of gamers in than TOW"

Yes, those who are absent from stores.

A lot of LOTR fans came from the films.

Many book fans either don't like the films of prefer other takes on the idea when it comes to figures.

Many film fans didn't know what they were getting into, from what I have heard.

Eg mum taking back a starter set because the figures were "broken".

In the end, LOTR players that exist today have everything they need.

I see the few figures released recently, but I think they are all resin?? Or made to order metal classics. It doesn't look like major plastic investment??

Just something new for people to buy while they still have the licence.

"replacing a beloved IP that works as an RPG-esque skirmish game with an old massed fantasy game is utterly moronic in terms of player base."

Most LOTR fans aren't buying and playing this game.

TOW, or FB at the least, has a huge fan base for the models and game, in comparison.

By now the LOTR licence is not making the money it once was.

GW would be moronic not to play the old switcheroo.

I'm sure right now they are selling more royalty free old mould TOW minis then they are LOTR.

I suspect the new LOTR minis are giving them a good look at the difference as well.

Never regret an education.