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"Russian cavalry 'Composite' regiments." Topic


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hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP20 Jun 2024 11:33 p.m. PST

Hello everyone,
In the orders of battle of certain Russian army corps in Crimea we find so-called 'Composite' hussar and/or uhlan regiments.

What are these regiments?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2024 9:33 a.m. PST

They are "composite" in that they are formed from different units. Example, the 4th, 5th and 6th uhlans may lose two squadrons each in order to make the 7th composite uhlan regiment, which is 6 squadrons strong.

rmaker21 Jun 2024 10:53 a.m. PST

The ten squadron light cavalry regiments had eight field and two depot squadrons. In 1812, the depot squadrons were combined to form the composite regiments.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2024 10:19 p.m. PST

@79thPA
I suspected that now it would be necessary to know which regiments formed which regiments.

@rmaker
LOL, you really have a problem with the dates, we are talking about the Crimean War not the Russian campaign of 1812.

Cuprum221 Jun 2024 11:05 p.m. PST

Composite Uhlan Regiment of the Russian Army in the Crimean War

A temporary cavalry formation during the Crimean War, created in 1854 directly to participate in hostilities. Consisting of reserve squadrons of the Lithuanian, Volyn, Voznesensky, Olviopol, Bug and Odessa Uhlan regiments (one from each). This was a formation in which the vast majority of the rank and file were "first year" recruits.

1 6 Tablets depicting uniforms (chief officer lower rank) of the reserve squadrons of the Lithuanian, Volyn, Olviopol, Voznesensky, Bug, Odessa Uhlan regiments. In the battle itself, the uniforms were probably buttoned up "overlapping" (with buttons, with the colored lapel inside), and the hats were covered with black covers. In this form hiding the most striking differences between the Russian lancers and the British the Russian lancers could be mistaken by the enemy from afar for their own, which is what happened.

picture

Lithuanian Lancer Regiment

picture

Volynsky Ulan Regiment

picture

Voznesensky Uhlan Regiment

picture

Olviopolsky Uhlan Regiment

picture

Bugsky Uhlan Regiment

picture

Odessa Uhlan Regiment

I have no information about the composite marching hussar regiment.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2024 11:48 p.m. PST

@Cuprum2
Bravo but there were several Composite Uhlan Regiments?

And if so, all these regiments were formed by the squadrons of the reserve squadrons of the Lithuanian, Volyn, Voznesensky, Olviopol, Bug and Odessa Uhlan regiments (one from each)?

It would be nice to find some illustrations.

There were several Composite Hussars Regiments?

It would be nice to find the same information on the composite hussar regiment.

Cuprum223 Jun 2024 3:31 a.m. PST

As far as I know, only two composite cavalry regiments took part in the hostilities in Crimea – Uhlan and Hussar.
In general, each Russian combat cavalry regiment had one reserve squadron. The reserve squadron exists to receive and train new recruits – this is a training unit. After training in the training (reserve) squadron for a year, the already trained soldiers from this squadron were recruited to join the combat squadrons of their regiment. In such a squadron there were only officers and non-commissioned officers as permanent personnel who were engaged in training the arriving recruits.
In case of urgent need, a temporary composite regiment could be formed from such reserve (training) squadrons of various regiments, which was done.

I have no information about which reserve squadrons of which hussar regiments formed the composite hussar regiment.
The squadrons of the composite regiment wore the uniform of the regiments to which they belonged – i.e. each squadron in the composite regiment had a uniform that was different from the other squadrons.

Cuprum223 Jun 2024 5:42 a.m. PST

I was wrong.
At the outbreak of war, a temporary Reserve Light Cavalry Division was formed. It consisted of two brigades (Uhlans and Hussars). Each brigade had two regiments, each consisting of six squadrons.

The 1st regiments in both divisions were formed from the reserve squadrons of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd light cavalry divisions.
The 2nd regiments are from the reserve squadrons of the 4th, 5th, and 6th light cavalry divisions.

So:

Uhlan Brigade

1st composite uhlan regiment

2nd composite uhlan regiment


Hussar Brigade

1st composite Hussar Regiment

2nd composite Hussar Regiment

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2024 11:07 p.m. PST

@Cuprum2
I was certain that there were several regiments of this type in Crimea.

You write that in case of urgent need, a temporary composite regiment could be formed from these reserve (training) squadrons of various regiments, which was done, I know but it is incomprehensible, given the mass of cavalry available to the Russian Empire.

It is a shame that I too have no information on the reserve squadrons that formed the composite hussar regiments, because I suppose all these squadrons of Uhlans and Hussars wore their distinctive regimental colors on their greatcoats?

Cuprum224 Jun 2024 1:47 a.m. PST

Russia has a gigantic border that requires a lot of troops to protect it. The Eastern War was not limited only to fighting in the Crimea fighting also took place in the Caucasus, in the Danube principalities, in the Baltic, Black, White and Barents seas, as well as in Kamchatka. Austria, according to estimates, could also enter the war against Russia, which means Russia was forced to have a significant part of the Russian troops against it. The fighting in Central Asia also continued. All this required appropriate troops.

You will be surprised, but in the Crimean company a significant part of the Russian troops were made up of various non-field, irregular or temporary formations: composite infantry regiments (created on the same principle as cavalry ones), garrison units, internal troops (line battalions), Cossack formations, militia units, units formed from sailors and even from prison companies (soldiers and sailors sentenced to criminal penalties).

Using the information I provided above, we can find out that, for example, the 1st consolidated hussar regiment consisted of training squadrons of hussar regiments that were part of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd cavalry divisions. So you just need to find the schedule of the hussar regiments of these divisions…

Yes, the squadrons sent to the composite division continued to wear the uniform of their regiment.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2024 1:15 a.m. PST

@Cuprum2
The Russian riders wearing their greatcoats, what are the distinctive regimental signs visible on them?

Cuprum225 Jun 2024 9:27 p.m. PST

On the plates that I presented above, you can see in a small square the differences that are on the overcoats. These are the colors of shoulder straps and collars.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2024 10:05 p.m. PST

@Cuprum2
Last Monday, I forgot to tell you that the boards you presented above do not work.

Cuprum225 Jun 2024 11:55 p.m. PST

picture

picture

picture

picture

picture

picture

The order of naming the tablets is the same

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP26 Jun 2024 9:44 p.m. PST

@Cuprum2

Ah Super !

But the colors of shoulder straps and collars are always identical?!

The other system of recognition of the Russian uhlan regiments could be the flames on the lances.

Were they worn on the lances in combat?

Cuprum226 Jun 2024 11:55 p.m. PST

The collar is always blue, but has edging of a different color assigned to the regiment. The two regiments also have regimental color buttonholes on the collar.
The shoulder straps of all Uhlan regiments have a different color (regimental color). But for officers of all regiments, the shoulder straps were always covered with silver (for this type of troops) officer braid. Only narrow strips of regimental colored shoulder straps were visible.

picture

I do not know whether pennants were worn on spears in battle.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2024 9:58 p.m. PST

@Cuprum2

The collar is always blue, but has edging of a different color assigned to the regiment?

Are you talking about greatcoats?

Because for their coatees this is not what is written on page 80 in Robert Wilkinson-Latham's very good old book "Uniforms & Weapons of the Crimean War" dating from 1977 where they give the distinctive colors of the collars, collar patches, cuffs and lapels and caps of the 22 regiments by Uhlans.

The Cossacks do not wear pennants on their lances.

Cuprum227 Jun 2024 10:55 p.m. PST

I am talking only about the uniform of those contingents that were part of the Composite Regiment, the tablets for which I presented above.

We are not talking about Cossacks.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2024 11:59 p.m. PST

@Cuprum2
I was talking to you about the Cossacks to tell you that unlike the Uhlans, the Cossacks do not wear pennants on their lances.

It's good to know.

I also discovered that the 7th Uhlans was called 'Voznesenski Uhlans' and that at least one of its squadrons incorporated the 2nd composite uhlan regiment.

It's good to know.

My problem is that in his very good old book, "Uniforms & Weapons of the Crimean War" from 1977, Robert Wilkinson-Latham gives the distinctive colors of the cuffs, collars and collar patches of all the Dragoon regiments but not their names .

It gives the distinctive colors of the collars, collar patchs, cuffs and lapels and caps of all the Uhlans regiments but not their names and finally it gives the distinctive colors of the body of the shako and sabretaches, dolmans, pelisses and cording of all the Hussar regiments but not their names.

Robert Wilkinson-Latham also gives the distinctive colors of the collars, piping, shoulder flaps,girdles and headdress bags of all the Cossack regiments then the distinctive colors of the cherkeska, shoulder straps and the color cap of all the Caucasian Cossack regiments.
Send feedback

Cuprum229 Jun 2024 8:51 p.m. PST

Cossack regiments, except for the guards, are irregular formations. The Cossack class is a relic of the Middle Ages; all people belonging to this class (for life and inheritance) were exempt from taxes, but were required to undergo military training and maintain their skills throughout their lives, as well as to appear for military service upon first request. Cossacks are equipped and equipped at their own expense and have only general recommendations for their appearance. They also naturally strive to reduce their personal expenses on their uniforms and equipment that are not directly important in battle, since they are simply saving their personal funds. So the absence of pennants on spears is natural for them. As are various deviations in uniforms. I think that in the field they generally differed quite significantly in appearance from the officially prescribed one. Cossack officers are likely to more strictly adhere to the uniform prescribed to them, since they are richer and their high status obliges them. Such a system existed among the Cossacks until the First World War.

I have a scan of the manuscript, which contains all the information you need, but, alas, it is only in Russian or French. I can send you this information, since it will be very troublesome and time-consuming for me to translate the information for each regiment myself. Give me an email to send and write which language you prefer – and I will send this scan to you.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP29 Jun 2024 10:18 p.m. PST

Ok thanks send me this in French to this address:22breton@orange.fr

Where do your illustrations of Russian uhlan uniforms come from?

Cuprum229 Jun 2024 11:19 p.m. PST

Sent.

These illustrations are taken from this site:

antologifo.narod.ru

Section on Uhlan regiments:

link

But in my opinion, navigation there is very inconvenient.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2024 11:09 p.m. PST

Thank you, we'll see.

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