"Companies closing down in the future" Topic

I went to look at Aventine and saw they are planning to close in September 2025.
I then went to Grubby tanks/brittania and saw they are planning to close in September 2026.

I'm loathe to check any other sites in case I jinx them into closing as well…..

That's not good, and Grubby has just taken over the SHQ range (incl. Kennington Miniatures).

The times are moving against metal casters.
Machinery, less choice.
Rubber moulds, less choice.
Metal, more expensive less choice.
Overheads/wages higher, due to manual nature of production.

3D print is the future.
Although 3D does not have the depth of choice (presently) for figures (eg Peter Pig Mexican revolution 280+ unique figure sculptings) so it will take much longer to kill off the figure companies.

I predict (?) that one day soon, 3D printing will allow players to choose, pose, costume and weapon. Marvellous for gamers.

C'est la vie. C'est la geurre.

martin

PS Readers will see metal companies being sold as
"Irresistible opportunity to lose money. I am only selling up because it made too. much profit"

martin

True Martin, some will see it that way.
I don't, having sweated and burnt myself for a number of years casting and selling I would never vouch for it being a relaxing and profitable profession.

I think the aging of the owners plays a role as well.
If, or when, the hobby becomes 3D printing I am out.
I am a metal man till the day I die. I

You can 3-D print in metal, as well. Or at least something that becomes metal on sintering.

(Don't know about the cost, though. Probably horrendous)

+1 Grattan54.

+2 Grattan54.

Recently I have been buying 3d printed minis. I am a Warhammer fan, & on Etsy there is a licensed producer that prints Big Hat-esque Chaos Dwarfs. The minis are good.

The idea that 3d printing will open up a wider variety of figures is very important to me. One of my favorite periods is the 12th C Europe. I'd love to do a Northern Crusades game. Good luck finding that in metal.. With 3d printing, that becomes a more realistic proposition.

Damon.

My attempts to purchase 3D printed miniatures invariably end up with horrible easily broken resin or nasty plastic many of which barely resemble the 3D render in the advert. Honestly I'd rather have traditional hard styrene plastic kits or metal miniatures.

Having said that 3D printing aside almost every miniature company out there seems to be run by a bloke over 50 so eventually they are going to want to retire and I don't see running a traditional miniatures company as appealing to the younger generations.

Thankfully I have more than enough figures, vehicles, etc!

Honestly!,,

Tally Ho!

It's an interesting position to be in. I don't believe the market is so easy to split up.
Metal can always be melted down and re-cast. The core ingredients for resin I believe are mostly natural products coming from plant materials(??).
I've had the problems with poorly printed figures, I've broken them through clumsiness, and I've seen some designs that simply wouldn't make it in a metal range.
However, there are a lot of very nice metal figures out there that are not going to go away and will always have a market. The question is, will that market always be exclusively metal, or, will it be metal cast and/or resin printed?

The reason you do not see Minifigs made in the USA is that the new owner thinks the US is a gold mine. What he has asked for royalties shows how out of touch the industry in the USA is!

So if anybody can obtain rights for the USA or North America for the 15 and 25mm ranges, I've got the molds!

AIM just released 30+ 3D prints with 6 more this month. We also have 4 metal 1/144th PzIII versions and 2 early Shermans in the pipeline which will be in metal. I have been out of the business long enough to almost have a heart attack of what one 12 inch silicone mold costs!( A case of 15 sets of rubber mold blanks used to be $150.00 USD) Metal? When we started in 1998, a pound of metal was 7.65 USD; today, locally it goes for almost $30.00 USD / pound! IMHO, metal figure makers are being priced out of the marketplace. No nefarious reasons or conspiracies that "I" can see.

I put a post on TMP about a year ago on someone's thread where the demise of some businesses was being discussed and what this meant for the future of figure manufacturing. I was predicting the end of most small businesses which have been with us a while, I suppose that isn't exactly Rocket Science pointing that out, natural attrition due to the age of their owners being a major factor, and over the next few years their most profitable products being snapped up by larger businesses seeking a greater market share, and the non profitable ranges being slowly discarded over time. At the time my prediction was met with scorn by some but time will tell. I thought we would end up with a few large companies stocking various scales, different periods and various ranges as a sort of one stop shop for everything as a way of competing with 3d printing which will be very competitive and continue to rise in popularity, however it will be more for those on a budget I think. The more well heeled and those died in the wool metal lovers may just be sufficient in number to keep the large one stop shop firms going provided those firms can supply just about everything you need. In 10 years time there will be fewer trade stands at shows, and many of the ones that go will be larger and carry a lot more variation in stock than they do currently. Just my thoughts.

Grattan54 +3

Grattan54 +4. I've tried plastics, I just don't like them.

I'm loathe to check any other sites in case I jinx them into closing as well…..

Just to add that I have stated in the past that Fighting 15s will close in 2030 when I'm 70. :-)

Well there is one that I won't get blamed for!

I think jewellery provides some clarity.

For decades you could buy cheap alloy and plastic jewellery.

Oddly, you can still buy gold and silver jewellery, with real gemstones!

Also hand crafted items, like cast metal and sculpted figures, typically hold greater value than mass produced cheap junk.

As people get older they will come to realise this and metal casting will continue, even if as the Tiffany's of wargaming.

Also hand crafted items, like cast metal and sculpted figures, typically hold greater value than mass produced cheap junk.

Oddly, spin casting in metal is a very cheap way of producing small items in quantity. :-)

A single spin-casting machine will vastly out produce a single 3D printer, against which you have to set a large stock of physical moulds as against a compact and digital library of files. I cannot physically pack in a day the figures I can make in a day through traditional casting. To match the output of a traditional spin casting machine, you would need a print shop with a dozen or more 3D printers. The entry level costs for 3D printing are smaller if you buy new. My first spin casting equipment (casting machine and melt pot) cost £650.00 GBP secondhand; mould making services will be cheaper than buying a new vulcanizer for the first 40 or so moulds.

The value of metal in a single 15mm foot figure is pennies (in single figures), against fractions of pennies for 3D printing resin. So the real issue on price is the fact that the seller has to make a living out of the product. Apart from people who do 3D printing for fun and therefore undersell what they make, prices for 3D printing as far as I can see are often more than the prices for traditional metal figures. As for the Siocast revolution (cheap plastic injection moulding) – as I demonstrate, beatable on price by metal because the cost of materials isn't the main factor in determining selling price.

I'm not particularly worried about the future of metal casting. I hate all the plastic figures I've ever bought: multipose figures simply aren't, weapons are too thin and fragile, and assembly time – especially with fiddly parts – is often worse than clean-up time on a metal figure.

I am concerned that when I retire – remember, in 2030 – the cost of taking on my business will be too great for anyone to consider for what is pension level income. I do it because I love it (grumpy moments mean that mileage may vary on that), and because I need something to occupy my time.

I've been running Frontline Wargaming for over 40 years in one form or another. It never occurred to me until lately that there would come a time when I would give it all up. I'm 4 years past retirement age, I now use reading glasses and a magnifying lamp to work and a damaged thumb has affected my dexterity. Having 2 more stents fitted made me take the decision to slow down and go into semi retirement.
I know that there will come a time when it has to finish. The big question is what do I do with the business, all those moulds and the IT miniatures range as well. Like me its old school, things have moved on with lazer cut MDF and 3D printing seem to be advancing at a fast rate leaving resin casting behind. I don't know if I could sell Frontline on, how do you put a price on over 40 years of effort of being a wargamer who sold stuff.

"As for the Siocast revolution (cheap plastic injection moulding) – as I demonstrate, beatable on price"

5000 casts per mould with siocast.

I've heard spin silicon moulds usually last about 100.

Siocast moulds are about more than twice the price.

So for 2-300+ siocast makes sense.

"multipose figures simply aren't,"

That is pretty true, especially in ranks.

"the cost of taking on my business will be too great for anyone to consider for what is pension level income."

Then let someone take it on for free, or a cut, or similar.

Point is, don't let it fade to dust.

If the other option is just to let it sit and rot, don't.

There must be plenty of people who are looking for income who would be keen to do something interesting.

Advertising for interested people in your area may be a good start.

Do that now so you can get to know them, and pass on advice and skills.

You can get some free help and they can see if it's right for them.

You could set something up so they work off any payment, so it costs them no money and you get to start taking it easy now.

Goes for you both.

"Then let someone take it on for free, or a cut, or similar."

Couldn't do that. It's not all the moulds, spinner, resins and metal.
It's the company name built up over 40+ years. All the frustration , late nights, hours driving to and from shows, trying to get orders out in a reasonable time. It's also the satisfaction of pulling that first casting from a new mould. Seeing your product in use on gaming tables.
It's all the above is where the investment lies and that's why selling the company on might be difficult. How do you put a price on all that.

The niche for 3D-printed figures lies in offering specialty items that are otherwise unavailable. For instance, I have acquired French WWII vehicles and armored trains suitable for the Boer War, which no one else produces. The prints were of very high quality.

One significant advantage of 3D printing is the ability to customize the size of the item to my exact specifications.

However, the quality of printed figures can vary greatly, ranging from excellent to poor. Finding high-quality figures often requires some trial and error.

Despite these benefits, I still prefer metal castings over 3D printing, as the quality of metal remains superior for now.

"How do you put a price on all that."

That's my point.

If no-one wants to pay what you consider it's worth in sentiment, and you would otherwise just let it die, better to let someone have it for less.

No point holding onto dusty machines and moulds when they could be being used.

You could also look into being a silent partner or something.

You could still own the equipment, and get a cut of the profits/free minis.

Old Glory has been around 37 years.
Best year ever was just over 2 million $$$
Sales still very good.
Everything from horror,super heros,historicals, SciFi, fantasy, space ships, ships, pirate ships, etc, etc,etc
No other place that manufacturers 10mm,18mm, 28mm, 40mm, resin, foam, entire towns, castles, buildings, etc.

And you can have it when you pry it from my cold grey hands.

Best regards
Russ Dunaway

I guess I just don't see the point in that.

Did I read on here somewhere that Minairons Miniatures is also either stopping (retirement) or changing hands?

I would just like my order from Britannia/Grubby completed.

Placed 1 March, numerous emails ignored, told it would be posted in early April and nothing received…hopefully I get my order or money back before he closes.

korsun0, you probably should just go ahead and get a creditcard chargeback – you only have a certain amount of time to do so to avoid being ripped off.

thanks mate, I have lodged a dispute with P/pal.