"Best rules for Vietnam?" Topic

I can't find any posts or topics covering this since about 2014, though someone will no doubt dig something up I'm sure to prove me wrong, but anyway, having tried several times with BOHICA and finally given up my Sunday night group is moving on to Charlie don't Surf instead.
I have a copy of Force on Force but seeing as another group I've recently joined on Monday nights seem very predisposed towards all TFL rules I thought we'd give CDS a go. BOHICA has a good rules set hiding in there somewhere, but we can't find it. It would have also benefitted from decent proof reading before publication which seems lax given how few pages there are, and a FAQ/Errata page which I find annoying.
I've toyed with using Bolt Action for Vietnam as we use that as our normal WW2 skirmish rules on a Sunday, but CDS will be given a go first. We use 28mm figures and prefer to 'go large' as they say when it comes to putting a game on.
I was wondering what were everyone else's preference these days for their go to rules, perhaps a Poll might be worth running ?

Incoming! the Crossfire variant for Vietnam
I would also use One Hour Skirmish Wargames

Our clubs always enjoyed the Bodycount rules played at 20mm. If you hunt around you may still find a printed copy but it was only ever a folded and stapled paper print. PDF here link

I use a variant of One Hour Skirmish with the troop quality stolen from Force on Force.

It just a matter of customization of the cards decks with the lower quality troops getting fewer cards.

It worked great for my FireForce missions in Rhodesia.

I don't have BOHICA yet, but I've written summaries of many Vietnam rule sets here:

link

For me, I find it nice when people spell out the rules the first time.
BOHICA, TFL, CDS uh???

Can confirm that Bolt Action works well

BOHICA is the title of the rules set. The title is based on Vietnam era US military slang (BOHICA- bend over, here it comes again).
CDS – Charlie Don't Surf. The title comes from a line in the movie Apocalypse Now
TFL – Too Fat Lardies, the authors and distributors of CDS among other rules.

Depends on the scale you want to represent.
I homebrew depending on the set up for the game (tend to host my events), using some rulesets as my foundation.
Grunt – Zozer Games
Recon – Palladium Books
FNG – Darby Eckles
(Both on Drive thru RPG or Wargames Vault.
I "kriegsspiel" novels like 13th Valley and Company Commander.

Agree depends on scale and how much control you want of your troops.
For platoon force on force works great and is my preferred. Need to house rule air/arty IMO

For company/battalion CDS plays well. I have switched to the modern variant of Battlefront WWII which is downloaded from there website.
Will post a report of each here after fathers day if I can find them.
Hope that helps.
As always, rules are often a personal preference; hence there are so many of them.

Thanks everyone, keep 'em coming if there are any more of you out there who haven't had a say. Sorry about the acronyms, I thought most would be familiar with them.

Crossfire and Recon would be my picks. but I dont really play anything post WWII.

Guess I am really an old timer= Charlie Company from RAFM. Saw at Gencon one year a game where the player acting as the 2Lt got fragged by the Sr NCO player for calling in a fire mission right on top of the unit!

Now that seemed pretty realistic at the time!

FNG is a fun game. Check it out here: link

Charlie Company, RAFM

The Flames of War Rule Set "Nam" are pretty good for 15mm games. They are easy to pick up and do give a nice feel to the game at 15mm scale. Areas missing, like no rules for Napalm.. but nothing that is too major or cannot worked out between players.

Having tried CDS for the past fortnight we are giving FoF an outing next week. CDS seems like it's more for 15mm figures, and also shows it's age. Perhaps the Lardies might revisit it one day and give us a V2 more long the lines of their more recent releases ?

Vf,
Appears you are using 28mm figures. How large are your forces?

Joe

If we put everything on the table at once I'd say there's a dozen ARVN, about 40 to 50 USM and around 60 -70 VC/NVA plus about a dozen civvies.
We tried FoF the other week and it was a slaughterfest for the Vietnamese. We had to recycle several units as there were at least a dozen KIA and the same WIA, whilst the ARVN only lost 1 KIA. Basically we feel FoF is more suited to built up areas with lots of hard cover.
Waiting for PSC's new rules to come out soon, they look interesting and might be more what we might like. There's a bit of resistance to trying BA Vietnam from a few players I think who are dyed in the wool TFL rules users.

Did you consider the engagement asymmetrical?
FoF is well thought out. If it was a slaughterfest then the VC must have tried to go toe to toe. They need to spring ambushes and melt back into the terrain; move to the flanks or charge in close so the US can't bomb.
They are well thought out rules but require two different strategies to fight. ( The indirect fire rules are kinda weak)
If your gang wants to line up toys they might not work well though.
Good luck getting everyone on the same page.

We used the scenario that was in the rules. The USM were holding a couple of hooches in the ville while the ARVN were in two mortar pits with an empty hooch that was on fire masking them from the VC coming on at one corner of the table, which I guess explained their lack of casualties.
The VC came on randomly all round the board so the ARVN/USM were basically surrounded and there was lots of cover to help the VC get as close as possible before being spotted. Some dice rolls might have hindered the VC somewhat as they rolled pretty low several times.

I would have to go back and look at that scenario. Does it have hot spots? The ability to use hot spot movement is a boon to the VC. Shoot and overrun or shoot and move away. Perhaps it was just bad luck or maybe the rules just don't work for your group. Here is a game I played during covid.
link

Cheers
Joe