"Prince August disappointment" Topic

I could be wrong, please let me know if I am.

Looking at the Prince August site, it appears that they are now computer engineering their sculpts, rather than having them sculpted by artists.

This appears to be the case due to obvious CGI renders used in the images.

This would kind of void the point of traditional casting, as they may as well 3d print them or sell files and not contaminate their range of moulds.

I know a lot of people don't care, but then what are those people doing casing metal? If they don't care how the moulds are made, why not just buy a box of plastic and be done with?

I do get it may be cheaper, and for mould lay out, easier, but we (at least I) choose to go to the moon.

The beauty of companies like Prince August is the fact they are (usually) keeping traditions alive.

And that should go all the way.

Also horrified to see them selling metal type face to melt down.

I'm not sure how much of this is around, but it's obviously only going to be less.

At least they aren't selling wood block to burn to heat your crucible.

Small Mercies.

I think you will find that quite a few casting companies 3D render the masters these days, particularly for vehicles and guns.

Personally I couldn't give two hoots how they make them.

Their fantasy molds are the same as they've always been. They are offering a lot more types and forms of casting metals today, compared to what they offered in the early 2000's, when I was casting with their molds.

I had hoped to acquire free lead tire weights from auto shops in my area, to cast hundreds of figures for my fantasy armies. I discovered that pure lead yielded poor castings. I had to use their expensive Model Metal to get decent castings. It was still much less expensive to cast my own figures, compared to buying them from a company.

In the end, I gave up on it: too much effort to get decent castings, too few molds for the armies I wanted to build. I still have plenty of my castings in my collection.

If you want the heft of metal miniatures (as opposed to plastic), these are still a good way to go, if you want to enjoy the casting/painting/gaming aspects all together. There is something special about gaming with figures which you cast, yourself. I never sculpted my own models, making my own molds for casting -- not yet, anyway. LOL! Cheers!

Perfect examples of a consumer and a creator.

Moulds are easy to make. PA have a two part silicon available. I can recommend castaldo quick Sil which is a two part RTV like bluetac or dough, so it's not a liquid with all that mess. Just roll two equal balls, flatten, and knead together.

You could just convert the figures and make new moulds from that. Like changing a chap with gun to a chap with sword, simple stuff. Add a putty bag or hat while your there.

At least PA are still going, so casting is still a hobby being pushed.

It's just very odd to cast computer engineered figures.

And what of the sculptors? Out of work or forced to become computer engineers, or is that programmer? Like how cell animation artists in Asia had to turn to doing cartoon P**n to make a living after CGI pushed it's way in there.

Hey, if sacked PA artists are now sculpting chicky babe figures, let me know!

Why does it matter what design method they use as long as you get the quality you want?

That's my point.

I want good quality, not some cheap CG immitation.

I want a cast of something that was actually made by a person with their own hands, not something programmed into a computer.

PS

Why does it matter?

Why does it matter if they use pure lead?

Why does it matter if they don't put a child safety warning on it?

Why does it matter if the figures don't have heads?

Why does it matter if they use slave child labour to make them?

Why does it matter if they charge ten times as much money?

Why does it matter if that money funds terrorism?

It matters.

I guess I don't really understand how a model created using computer design is "cheaper" than one molded from clay. The result will certainly have higher detail and it still takes a skilled person hours to design.

Comparing this change to slave labor or poison is absurd.

Not really.

It's still putting people out of work.

There are more than enough computer games to work on.

Computer figures rarely have the interest or character of sculpted pieces.

It's nice to know someone put in some care and attention to a figure.

Most CG figures, like PA are only shown as CG renders, so you have no idea what you are actually buying.

I know a lot of people don't care. They are just consumers. But many do, that's why so many traditional set ups are still going strong.

Some people like sculpting, and many like their work. So there will always be a supply and demand.

It's just a shame companies like PA are falling out of that loop.

However, other industry heavies, like GW (probably only GW?), are turning back to metal and sculpting, proving my point. Hopefully that will continue.

@ Gauntlet there's a few reasons why digital sculpting works out cheaper.

Foremost is the software.

When I dabbled in computer art/animation I used a program called "Poser", it was basically a 3D Action Man/G.I. Joe. You had these basic figures with pre-set proportions of
slim/average/heroic. To the basic figure you would add tools, weapons, uniforms/armour etc from readily available sets. With the figure suitably garbed you assigned it a pose or animation, again from readily available sets.

The whole process was very simple and very quick, under 1 hour start to finish quick. I quit dabbling 20 years ago so just imagine how streamlined the task is now :-)

Another time/money/labour saving advantage of 3D sculpting is the 'Master', it goes direct to print. No more mould making, failed casts, clean ups or production mould making.

Poser is fun.

But in the way mentioned above,it's just using other's work, for the most part.

Possibly poser, and certainly other programs allow for engineering it from scratch.

It takes a longer time from scratch. Like the difference between sculpting a figure or just kit bashing/converting one.

The benifit of physical figures is you don't need to wait for a printer, and the potential fail.

"No more mould making, failed casts, clean ups or production mould making"

Umm…

No so.

Many companies use 3D prints as the master, then make master/production moulds for it for resin, metal (like PA is doing), probably other materials.

Also, many are the failed print stories, problem beds, and various technical hick ups.

The H Man You also miss another point in an all digital to model system ypu get far more beliveable figures. Most afforable metal casings are 2 part, certainly when I was a kid PA figures were not very 3D and only 2 part moulds. With a printed model you can get beliveable poses not possible practicaly in metal cast there would be too many parts to the mould to make them economically viable.

By being part of the "old guard" you are missing out on the massive advanatges the new technology is maKing in REAL SCALE model soldiers not the poor quality, poorly propotioned, overscale models of the past.

"far more beliveable figures."

Yes, you have to be careful or your orc may not be believable.

"Most afforable metal casings are 2 part,"

Like moulds for plastic, with all that great side detailing?

Prints have their own issues, dimpling, lines, fragility, endless supports, depending on type.

"you can get beliveable poses not possible practicaly in metal cast"

Wow, so a sculptor may have to actually deal with some limitations?!

Gosh, that won't make him better, will it.

Also most "accurately proportioned" figures I've seen are rubbish to paint.

There's a reason figures don't have accurate proportions, and it's not all about casting.

That's why there are larger scales.

Imagine accurately proportioned 3mm!

Skeletons!!!

""old guard""

Nothing old about it.

Unless you're saying older people have more sense?

Just experience painting lots of different figures.

"not the poor quality, poorly propotioned, overscale models of the past."

Poor quality seems more resin/3d prints in my experience.

Proportioned for use is what's important.

Most people paint figures, so any advantage there is welcome.

Real world accurate proportions only end up with blank faces and mittion hands. Forget hair definition too. Details just blend together.

That's why they have to over work scans, even for larger figures like action figures.

The best prints I've seen aren't accurately proportioned.

GW, for example.

It's nothing to do with 3dprinting, just the person/people making then.

If there is demand for more accurate proportions in figures, or for any other particular style then manufacturers will probably make them. Doesn't really have anything to do with how they sculpt or otherwise design them.

YUP, we are on diffrent wavelangths.

GW I would never consider as a good example of a figure. Weapons that size are laughab. If it does not look even vaugly plusible, for me I the sence of connection and engagement in the game, like try to play with a Salvador Dali figure.

Exactly.

Kind of blows the proportion argument out of the water.