"Female representation in wargaming" Topic

"
Our post about sexism in Kingdom Death prompted a reasonable amount of discussion, and made us realize that there was more that could be said about how women are represented in miniature gaming. When seeing a game which objectifies women as much as Kingdom Death does, it is easy to look at other games which don't portray women as egregiously, and give them a pass. In reality, all of the popular miniature companies today have issues with female representation.

Because it is assumed that the default, "neutral" gender of any model is male, which is itself a problem, miniature companies bend over backwards to let you know that a model is female, using certain coded visual elements. These indicators are numerous, including 1) armor that accentuates their breasts (often called boob-plate), 2) wearing less than their male counterparts, 3) being in provocative poses, and 4) having bare/unhelmeted heads…"

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Armand

If you're not going to make male and female models look different, why even bother assigning gender?

If the game does not have male and female models behave differently: males stronger, etc. again why bother? Oh, and may God have mercy on your soul if try… in an RPG, gender should impact stat lines yet still allow for Brienne of Tarth or Sam Tarley

All of my Space Marines are so heavily armored that you can't tell their sex. As for the Termigants and Genestealers, if you get close enough to detect the difference, you won't live long enough to tell anyone about it.

A big ho hum. Not enough women representation in the Ultimate Fighting Champions, and professional football either. Most sports and games even segregate men and women into separate teams.

Let the markets decide and make what people want. Not everything has to have social engineering.

Bunkermeister

+1 Louis XIV

I agree with the article in that the portrayal of women in our gaming spheres is generally wrong. I was however surprised to read that in arguing its wrong and there should be no difference (helmet on/off aside) with that of a male figure they then pad their article out with conversion opportunities and how to represent females in our various games. If a woman looks the same as a man in war (agreed) then the only way to show this accurately is an unhelmet head choice, that's it imo

In the black powder era, there are several examples of women who served, disguised as men, their sex only being discovered after they were wounded (Hannah Snell) or died (James Barry) so I can happily claim – should I want to – that any of my redcoats are actually female without undertaking any conversions!

segregate men and women into separate teams.

Current events to the contrary: Lia Thomas anyone?

Thanks

Armand

Hmm…

Toy soldiers date back far beyond this modern nonsense.

Back when women were not allowed to be soldiers (in most, particularly British, instances).

Not so bizarre then that wargames of these times and modern variations follow such a rule.

But if you do put women in a game/range, it's deemed bad because they my be attractive to the male market.

As you can't win, we may as well stick to the attractive women.

If anyone complains, tell them you'd rather not have unattractive women.

If you get a hard time about lack of clothing on the women, agree that you too think women in uniform are hotter, but these are the only figures you had to hand. And perhaps they are "ladies of the night," so it probably is their uniform.

I don't think there is a resolution to this.

Sticking to historicals can help.

As RPG/wargaming is, and certainly was, viewed as a lonely male nerdy thing, the fact attractive women figures are popular is forever ingrained in its DNA.

Thanks also…

Armand

While I think it is sexist and ridiculous how [particularly British] miniature manufacturers represent females in the miniatures hobby [huge boobs, and somehow high heels at all times even though they are bad for your ankles and useless in athletic events] it really doesn't matter.

43 years of tabletop gaming, the only women who play are in the boardgame side of things. Zero encounters with female miniature players of historical or any other type.

Since they don't participate in the market who cares what they think?

My wife thinks it's a complete mystery why anyone would invest time and energy in the miniatures hobby. I don't bother to ask why.

Thank God that this discussion (including the OP referenced post) isn't full of people focusing on their self-selected narrow view of margaming and proclaiming it to be universal.

(smile)

Armand

female representation in wargaming…… I don't care.

To answer the top post.

"1) armor that accentuates their breasts (often called boob-plate), "

I thought this would be more comfortable? Besides most women don't want to wear men's things. And if your going to have women, don't you want to tell them apart on the table top, so people can check you have the required ratio?

"2) wearing less than their male counterparts, "

Again, seems to be something women do. Go to your strip on a Saturday night, whatever the weather, and see who's wearing the least.

"3) being in provocative poses,"

I'm not sure I've ever seen a woman (between 18-40) who's not in a provocative pose. I'm not sure how you would possibly pose them otherwise.

" and 4) having bare/unhelmeted heads…"

Now your calling space marines girls. And so many more.

Women can wear the same chest plate as men, but not the same head wear? That's contradictory.

Thanks

Armand