"Historians: The Full Story of D-Day is More Complex" Topic

…Than the Myth

"…To the French, who were taken by surprise that day, it suggested liberation from the Nazis, but also opened up old wounds and new uncertainties. Jennifer Sessions, an associate professor in the University of Virginia's Corcoran Department of History, specializes in European and French history and is author of the book "By Sword and Plow: France and the Conquest of Algeria." She describes the Battle of Normandy as a time when farms, villages and shops became the battleground, all with the underlying fear that the Germans could turn the tide and resume their occupation…"

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Armand

Surprise, surprise. Anything involving human beings is complicated.

(smile)

Armand

How many French civilians were killed during the bombing of the transportation, rail, and road networks leading up to D-Day?

Wolfhag

During my visit to relatives in the area… I was surprised that people there have so bad memories of the Allies because of the bombings and so on and not so with the Germans who they say were correct during their occupation…

Armand

I'd have more sympathy if they'd fought harder, and collaborated less. It's not as if the American people wanted to be involved in the war.

Well…Of all the European countries under German occupation… the French were the ones who stood out the most in the resistance… much more than the Belgians or the Dutch and they did not suffer as much destruction from the Allies…

Armand

all the countries who had a free recongnized govt in London provided certainly more men to the german army than French who had a similar ratio of volunteers than neutrals Swiss and Swedes

what can know of French and France a member like that, nothing, as usual and seen previously and repeatedly in other sections of TMP only an alibi to share his ignorance and anti-french xenophoby and insult the Memories of others peoples

the French first mobilised more men than US and UK and second fought certainly much more harder than the Americans who collaborated with the nazis german and to nazi war effort agaisnt France (as did also communist Russia) and who celebrated their comon victory against France the 18th june 1940 in New York not to mention those numerous who shared the same racial views than their german models, at such point US were a "model" of society for nazi Germany given their racial laws agaisnt the opposite counter-model hawful "half-negro half-jew" Babylonian France the "shame of the white race" (opinion largley shared in US)

70 000 French soldiers killed in 6 weeks in 1940, how many times for UK and US to reach that in WWII I wonder, fore sure more than the US in the 8-years of Vietnam war, however it is only a "joke" for guys like you here while others members are very happy of the "3 tours that have done the germans in France" (sic) more near 2 millions of POW's a father a brother in the stalags during 5 years the STO for the youth
a country having lost his freedom and a great part of his male active population where three quarters of jewish people escaped to the death thanks to the french society (contrary to the X or Y so brave country where jewish were stripped humiliated in the streets beaten burned in the synagogues and etc…) on a continent where three quarters were exterminated has definitively no insults of that kind nor disgusting indecent double standards hypocrisy lessons to receive from another one, fully free fully democratic fully independant fully unoccupied having only as neighbors and threats the Canadians and spoliated Mexico and despite that where people lynched black and chased the jews in the streets like in Eastern Europe given the deep hostility that existed at that time in the US agaisnt them

and again despite all that, until TMP, teaching lessons of everything to everyone including to the last neutral unoccupied democratic republic of Europe who welcomed more jewish refugees than the pitiful limited quota of the US who did exactly the same with the nazi war effort than Switzerland, double standard hypocrisy

I was surprised that people there have so bad memories of the Allies because of the bombings and so on and not so with the Germans who they say were correct during their occupation…

glad to learn that, the "so korrect" behaviour of the germans, a well-known joke
maybe in Normandy there were no fightings in 1940 four years before the Angloamericans, nor dead by bombing or battles, nor families nor towns destroyed, the refugees of the Exode never existed in Normandy either, well 10 millions of refugees from the northern half in a country who counted 40 but from Normandy not a signle one
also nothing less than 300 000 german soldiers concentrated in an area of 2 millions of inhabitants less the numerous POW's, but no memories of looting and violences, nor even families expelled from their homes from the whole coastal areas because converted into a forbidden zone etc…the STO, the reprisals, the gestapos etc…
very curious, not quite representative of the memories of that time

what the people in Normandy thought of the so-korrect germans few months after the defeat and occupation :
the intelligence officer of the staff of the 84. ArmeeKorps, stationed in Lower Normandy in july 1941:
"The behavior of the population is, as usual, reserved and unfavorable, even sometimes rebellious. We always consider the Englishman as the friend and ally who we hope will bring victory and free the country from the German yoke."
And he continued in August: "Unkind faces and unfriendly attitudes are the order of the day. People leave the streets and squares during military concerts. We even noticed that some closed the windows as a sign of refusal." Indeed, in Saint-Lô, on January 1, 1941, while the Germans organized a parade to celebrate the new year, with a lot of drums, kettledrums and trumpets, the inhabitants showed their defiance by returning or staying at home

If you're going to call me ignorant, I strongly suggest you rewrite this in the original French, run it through an auto-translate program, and compare the results.

Face it: France lost in 1940, and without America, you'd be a German province. All the rage in your remarks highlights, rather than conceals that fact.

If you want to bring Vietnam into it, fine- but I don't think you realize that all of us know where that one started, too.

my level of english is proportionate to your level in anything French, history or society, so keep yours insulting posts for twitter or others places of that kind

un gars qui a l'incroyable prétention de formuler des commentaires sur la France et qui ne connaît de la France que "Europe Europe Europe" déjà c'est tout dire, un peu plus d'humilité ce serait bien et rester sur les sujets étatsuno-étatsuniens sont plus de votre niveau

ace it: France lost in 1940, and without America, you'd be a German province.

certainly not because they were too racists to see hated "half-negro half jew" mixed french as german province but agree that Blücher Bismark the Kaiser and Hitler would have been very glad to see the dismembered banana republic of France as planned by the antisemite anti-french anti-belgian Roosevelt not quite far from theirs pangermanist views

And yet we liberated France just the same.

It must really burn you up knowing that people you despise as much as you hate the English-speaking nations had to bail you out.

you are speaking for you I assume
obliged to ask the help of the dirty froggies capitulators against the small british army and germans and after independance and freedom who gave a great part of your territory and saved you a second time, maybe that is the matter of your anti-froggies obsession
without such hated country US would be only 13 further eastern coastal provinces of Canada, Trudeau Prime Minister in Philadelphia and Charles III head of state
et les gaulois de TMP auraient peut être la paix au lieu de se faire insulter par des ignorants et racistes trolls ici

For a man who tosses out ethnic slurs right and left, and attributes them to those who have never used them, you have a lot of nerve accusing anyone of being a racist.

But I suppose that's it, isn't it? The facts burn you up, because they don't tell the story you wish they would tell. It's hard to find much grandeur in the history of modern France, and even you know it.

encore une fois plus d'humilité…une chose définitivement acquise et certaine, au vu de votre prose passée et dans ce fil qui vous disqualifie pour cela, personne dans TMP ne va recevoir des leçons d'un contempteur de la culture civilisation et Histoire de France et moi encore moins que les autres

…des leçons d'anglais si vous voulez…

mais si la France vous indispose il y'a un médicament et traitement efficaces, restez donc sur les sujets étatsuno-étatsuniens où vous aurez à n'en pas douter une audience favorable ou alors corrigez nos fautes d'anglais qui blessent votre vue, au moins le temps que vous y passerez cela fera des vacances aux membres Français de TMP au lieu de souffrir vos invectives

You're not exactly a model of humility yourself, you know. And if you think I can't read your snarky remarks in French, you're wrong there, too. It takes some kind of arrogance to presume to tell me what topics I should stay on- while telling me I lack humility.

There are Francophones on TMP – but your posts demonstrate something unique, that I see in exactly none of them. You're a well known quantity here among the Anglophones for your nasty, xenophobic posts, so you're hardly in a position to complain. The difference is of course that none of us get quite so angry as you do. But then, perhaps we don't feel the same sense of shame when certain subjects come up.

I'm not going to stay on or off any topic because you tell me to- and I haven't the slightest interest or care what you think.

faut savoir c'est vous-même qui avez critiqué mon anglais et suggéré que je passe tantôt au français et maintenant vous me le reprochez, relisez-vous donc avant de donner des leçons en toutes choses et d'instruire des procès en xénophobie, relisez vous bien, vous nous parlez de vous, vous faites une projection
et vous n'êtes certes pas le porte-parole des membres francophones de TMP et garant de leur état d'esprit,
nous aussi on discute de ce qui se passe ici à l'occasion

Talk to one another all you want; your decision to hide in your native language only minimizes your own audience.

I'll say what I want, when I want, and draw whatever conclusions I like.

What you call arrogance and xenophobia is simply the comfort a man can feel in his own skin when he doesn't have to wonder whether his grandfather shaved women's heads- or whether his grandmother had hers shorn.

What you call arrogance and xenophobia is simply the comfort a man can feel in his own skin when he doesn't have to wonder whether his grandfather shaved women's heads- or whether his grandmother had hers shorn.

better and better…ad nominem insult now against my own family, memory of grandfather and grandmother? RIP
I think that it is the definitive perfect demostration and godwinesque conclusion of what I didn't cease to explain here concerning any disgusting trollesque behaviour

No- I'm simply pointing out the cultural wellspring of defeat, from which your own anger and xenophobia spring. Since you profess to value humility, I simply thought you would welcome a reminder of some of the less palatable episodes of France's participation in the war.

You can hardly take refuge in the claim not to have insulted any other culture- it's too well documented here.

c'est l'hôpital qui se fout de la charité