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"Royalist or Roundhead ?" Topic


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hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 9:42 a.m. PST

Hello everyone,
As for ECW, what is your favorite camp?

Royalists or Roundheads?

Or another?

And why?

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 10:20 a.m. PST

Royalist!

Tomsurbiton30 Apr 2024 10:25 a.m. PST

God and Parliament! As to why, for England's Freedom (and Soldiers' Rights).

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 10:59 a.m. PST

Royalist

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 11:06 a.m. PST

Why royalist?

JimDuncanUK30 Apr 2024 11:12 a.m. PST

I would probably be a Covenanter.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 11:14 a.m. PST

Parliament! – Cursed be the Divine Rights of Kings!

advocate30 Apr 2024 11:21 a.m. PST

I'll go for Right but Repulsive over Wrong but Romantic.

All Sir Garnett30 Apr 2024 11:21 a.m. PST

Royalist! Vive le Roi!

0ldYeller30 Apr 2024 12:37 p.m. PST

Roundhead.

Cerdic30 Apr 2024 12:52 p.m. PST

Advocate beat me to it…

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 12:59 p.m. PST

Roundhead, I don't care for royalty.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 2:02 p.m. PST

Parliament. When a king starts handing out guardianship of lunatics and minor children as party favors to his hangers-on, the contract's broken.

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 2:03 p.m. PST

Parliament. For the people.

martin

TimePortal30 Apr 2024 2:11 p.m. PST

As an American I always liked the Royaliasts

Sean Clark30 Apr 2024 2:50 p.m. PST

I'd be a Leveller.

Personal logo McKinstry Supporting Member of TMP Fezian30 Apr 2024 3:37 p.m. PST

Parliament. Charles really was a jerk (Divine Right my posterior).

clibinarium30 Apr 2024 4:02 p.m. PST

Confederate, most likely.

Texaswalker30 Apr 2024 5:54 p.m. PST

But who would have won a fist fight between Cromwell and Charles?

Grattan54 Supporting Member of TMP30 Apr 2024 5:59 p.m. PST

Royalist all the way.

Gray Bear30 Apr 2024 6:16 p.m. PST

Parliament. No king but Jesus.

BillyNM30 Apr 2024 10:54 p.m. PST

King AND Parliament, before it was hijacked by the zealots.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2024 1:30 a.m. PST

@Shagnasty
Why royalist?

@Tomsurbiton
At least you have du "franc-parler"!

@Dye4minis
Why royalist?

@JimDuncanUK
For what?

@Herkybird
You too you have du "franc-parler"!

@advocate
That's to say?

@All Sir Garnett
No, no ! Long live the Queen!

@0ldYeller
Why Roundhead?

@Cerdic
That's to say?

@ZULUPAUL
Long live the Republic?

@robert piepenbrink
Long live the Republic?

@martin goddard
For the people?

Did Oliver Cromwell love the people?

Wasn't it simply a war of religion?

@TimePortal
As an American? What is the relationship?

@Sean Clark
And what do you want to level?

@McKinstry
Charles really was a jerk?

I don't know, I didn't know him.

@clibinarium
Confederate?

You got the subject wrong.

It's ECW not ACW.

@Texaswalker
Cromwell?

With God's help?

@Grattan54
Which end?

@GrayBear
Jesus or God?

@BillyNM
The zealots.

Who were they?

marmont1814 Sponsoring Member of TMP01 May 2024 1:40 a.m. PST

For King

clibinarium01 May 2024 3:56 a.m. PST

@clibinarium
Confederate?

You got the subject wrong.

It's ECW not ACW.

Nope, that's a different type of Confederate.

Son of MOOG01 May 2024 6:50 a.m. PST

@clibinarium
Confederate?

You got the subject wrong.

It's ECW not ACW.

Nope, that's a different type of Confederate.

The various factions in Ireland were "united" under the term "the Irish Confederacy" thus the Irish rebels were collectively known as "confederates". I believe there were something like 5 different Irish Armies, all with there own agendas but somewhat cooperating against the Anglo-Irish and Protestant forces. The rebellion of 1641 was originally against England in general but the king brokered a deal with Ormond to effect a cease fire and allow many Royalist leaning troops to come to England and fight for the king in 1643.They never stopped fighting against Parliament in Ireland though.
Hope this helps. Its a confusing time for all involved!
Tom D

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2024 6:51 a.m. PST

Royalist or Confederate.

Old Nol and the religion of murder and oppression, ptooh!

Son of MOOG01 May 2024 7:00 a.m. PST

And oh, by the way, I would have supported the king.
Parliament got to radical for me as the war went on.
And remember, the original intent of parliament was not to remove the king but to remove his right to choose his own advisors, many of whom parliament disliked.Also,to insure that the king could not rule without parliament. It was the radicals that agitated for the removal of the king (and his head).It says something when parliament was eventually viewed as too radical even for the Scots Covenanters!
Just sayin……..

mildbill01 May 2024 7:25 a.m. PST

roundhead, just to stop 'the divine right of kings' stuff.

Guillaume deGuy01 May 2024 8:20 a.m. PST

I'll join Sean Clark, likely a Leveller.

forrester01 May 2024 9:05 a.m. PST

A plague on both.
I recently read the novel by Robert Harris "Act of Oblivion" which was a reminder how vicious and merciless they were to each other, depending on whose turn it was to be dominant.
There's no direct correlations with current political divides, tempting though it might be to choose Cromwell if you are on the left.
Most people now are constitutional monarchists AND parliamentarians.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2024 9:13 a.m. PST

Why fight for the King? Because it was the Right thing to do.

KeepYourPowderDry01 May 2024 10:04 a.m. PST

Actually Clibinarium is not confused, mixing up his Civil Wars. One of the many incarnations of Irish armies was the Catholic Confederacy.

Son of Moog is absolutely correct in his assessment of Irish forces – confusing.

John the Red01 May 2024 10:20 a.m. PST

Irish Confederate – my family at the time would have probably been following one of the Ulster armies (if anyone)

Leveller for the English side of my family

Doubtful the common folk of any area got much of a choice

KeepYourPowderDry01 May 2024 11:11 a.m. PST

John the Red they could always be Clubmen

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2024 5:48 p.m. PST

"Old Nol and the religion of murder and oppression, ptooh!"

That would be the people who instituted freedom of religion in England and let Jews return after centuries of exile, MiniMo?

Everyone wants to bring a combination of half-remembered history and modern politics to bear on wars centuries old. As today, the issues were often complicated, and the sides rarely align well with 21st Century politics.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP02 May 2024 2:33 a.m. PST

@marmont1814
Why?

@clibinarium
Yes I understood but I wanted to laugh.

@Son of MOOG
Yes, I knew they weren't the same type of "confederates" but I wanted to laugh…

Otherwise a king who can't govern is useless.

@miniMo
Royalist or Confederate and the others, ECW is downright a religious war!

@mildbill
In this case a king is of no use…

@Guillaume deGuy
And you what do you want to level?

@forrester
All this to harvest Oliver Cromwell then his son Richard Cromwell who succeeded him but for a very short time because General George Monck, governor of Scotland, feared that the nation would sink into chaos, and sought to reestablish the monarchy!

Olivier Cromwell who was so estimable by the English people that Charles II then returned to London where he was crowned on April 23, 1661and to avenge the death of his father, had the regicides tried, and Cromwell's body exhumed from Westminster Abbey and submitted, with the remains of his stepson Henry Ireton and Judge John Bradshaw, at the ritual post-mortem execution on January 30, 1661, the anniversary of the execution of Charles I.

Her body was thrown into a well and her head exposed on a stake in front of Westminster Abbey until 1685.

After three centuries of vicissitudes, she was buried at Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge, on February 12, 1960.

@Shagnasty
At least you have du "franc-parler"!

@KeepYourPowderDry
Yes but that made me laugh because on another topic, there is also talk of confederation…

@John the Red
Yes given the times as for the WOTR, it is doubtful that ordinary people in any region would have a choice.

@robert piepenbrink
freedom of religion does not prevent murder and oppression.

Martin Rapier02 May 2024 2:59 a.m. PST

Roundheads.

I'm not a huge fan of absolutist inherited power, however it is dressed up, although apparently it is the way of the world.

But it is only a game, so I dont really care which side I play.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP02 May 2024 10:16 a.m. PST

In a world full of religious oppression, Cromwell and the Puritans really stand out amongst their rivals in the war. Also note that the Witchfinder General was running rampant and being paid very well for it by the cities in Puritan-heavy East Anglia.

This was contemporaneous with the Puritans here in New England running the Salem Witch Trials. The Salem Trials were overseen by the General Court of Massachusetts (i.e. what is still the State Legislature today). Every member of that legislative body were graduates of Harvard College (what is today the Harvard Divinity School at Harvard University). They were all taught and all practiced a most murderous theology; hanging Quakers on Boston Common as well.

The only freedom of religion they stood for was their own.

Claiming to stand against the divine right of kings, yet Old Nol proclaimed himself chosen by god. Ptooh!

Elenderil02 May 2024 3:49 p.m. PST

I would be hiding in the cowshed when the recruiters came by! Have you seen the state of medical support available to the armies of the mid seventeenth century?

Otherwise I would probably have ended up serving with the local Parliamentarian forces as my part of the North West of England was fairly solid in supporting their cause. Probably with Colonel Starkie at the battle of Whalley in Colonel Assherton's Regiment at Nantwich.

Guillaume deGuy02 May 2024 6:18 p.m. PST

Hi Paskal,

I suspect that you already know what was to be levelled and are just teasing :-)

Many New Model soldiers embraced the idea and some even thought that was what they had been fighting for. In a levelled England, Jude Frawley could have become the scholar and churchman he so much desired to be.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP03 May 2024 4:40 a.m. PST

@Martin Rapier
For me it's the exact opposite, I'm so passionate about history that it's not a game, so I don't really care which side I play.

@miniMo
Yes the royalists were cooler with religion…

@Elenderil
I hid in the stable when the recruiters came by.

Ok and how old are you now because I believe that now these wars are over.

@Guillaume deGuy
Yes, but I would really like you to write here what had to be leveled in England at the time :-)

Guillaume deGuy03 May 2024 8:23 a.m. PST

Hi Paskal,

I don't have the requisite education to describe all the goals of the Leveller movement (in its several iterations). If you were to read the founding documents of the USA you would certainly gain a sense of them, particularly the opening of the Declaration of Independence and the first ten amendments of the Constitution.

For a nice collection of Leveller documents, which should answer any questions:
link
Far be it from me to attempt to summarize them here.

A 17th c. example (rather than the 19th c. I gave previously):
In a Levelled England, John Lilburne would not have been imprisoned multiple times for simply expressing his opinion about those in power.

Hope this helps. ;-)

Cerdic03 May 2024 11:56 a.m. PST

Levellers…

YouTube link

Guillaume deGuy03 May 2024 12:31 p.m. PST

One of the many iterations.

Thanks Cerdic.

huevans01103 May 2024 6:20 p.m. PST

If I had to go to war, I would sell my sword to the highest bidder in continental Europe.

I'd probably choose France. Less cataclysmic than Germany. Or a nice, stable siege-focused army like the Dutch.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP04 May 2024 12:54 a.m. PST

@Guillaume deGuy
John Lilburne the Puritan who became a Quaker.

Whipped, pilloried, and imprisoned several times where he was cruelly treated then he in turn criticized parliament and again was imprisoned then sentenced to be banished in the Netherlands at Bruges where he undertook to overthrow Cromwell, the Parliament, and the Council of State, within six months, but with the exception of the Duke of Buckingham, none of the royalists placed any confidence in him.

After the expulsion of the Rump in April 1653, he returned but the government at once arrested him, and lodged him in Newgate…

Lilburne died at Eltham 29 August 1657…

As he was the type to criticize any government, given the times he was lucky not to be executed in a public place.…

@Cerdic
Iteration, the action of repeating several times is boring.

@huevans011
And the continentals in the ECW?

Did anyone participate in ECW?

As a mercenary or otherwise?

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2024 9:28 p.m. PST

Gotta go with the Royalists. The hypocrisy and fanaticism of those Roundhead Puritans drives me nuts, plus I admire Montrose and couldn't fight against the Highland Scots who stood with him.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP06 May 2024 1:32 a.m. PST

@ piper909
You too you have du "franc-parler"!

Jefthro3 Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2024 3:41 p.m. PST

20 years or more ago this would have been an easy answer being at the time a Deacon in a nonconformist Church with antecedents to Oliver Cromwell , but now after serving in Her Majesty's Forces and currently an Anglican l guess l would have to be Royalist …..

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