hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 9:42 a.m. PST |
Hello everyone, As for ECW, what is your favorite camp? Royalists or Roundheads? Or another? And why? |
Shagnasty ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 10:20 a.m. PST |
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Tomsurbiton | 30 Apr 2024 10:25 a.m. PST |
God and Parliament! As to why, for England's Freedom (and Soldiers' Rights). |
Dye4minis ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 10:59 a.m. PST |
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hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 11:06 a.m. PST |
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JimDuncanUK | 30 Apr 2024 11:12 a.m. PST |
I would probably be a Covenanter. |
Herkybird ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 11:14 a.m. PST |
Parliament! – Cursed be the Divine Rights of Kings! |
advocate ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 11:21 a.m. PST |
I'll go for Right but Repulsive over Wrong but Romantic. |
All Sir Garnett | 30 Apr 2024 11:21 a.m. PST |
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0ldYeller | 30 Apr 2024 12:37 p.m. PST |
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Cerdic | 30 Apr 2024 12:52 p.m. PST |
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ZULUPAUL ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 12:59 p.m. PST |
Roundhead, I don't care for royalty. |
robert piepenbrink ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 2:02 p.m. PST |
Parliament. When a king starts handing out guardianship of lunatics and minor children as party favors to his hangers-on, the contract's broken. |
martin goddard ![Sponsoring Member of TMP Sponsoring Member of TMP](boards/icons/sponsor.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 2:03 p.m. PST |
Parliament. For the people. martin |
TimePortal | 30 Apr 2024 2:11 p.m. PST |
As an American I always liked the Royaliasts |
Sean Clark | 30 Apr 2024 2:50 p.m. PST |
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McKinstry ![Workbencher Fezian](boards/icons/workbencher.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 3:37 p.m. PST |
Parliament. Charles really was a jerk (Divine Right my posterior). |
clibinarium | 30 Apr 2024 4:02 p.m. PST |
Confederate, most likely. |
Texaswalker | 30 Apr 2024 5:54 p.m. PST |
But who would have won a fist fight between Cromwell and Charles? |
Grattan54 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 30 Apr 2024 5:59 p.m. PST |
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Gray Bear | 30 Apr 2024 6:16 p.m. PST |
Parliament. No king but Jesus. |
BillyNM | 30 Apr 2024 10:54 p.m. PST |
King AND Parliament, before it was hijacked by the zealots. |
hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 May 2024 1:30 a.m. PST |
@Shagnasty Why royalist? @Tomsurbiton At least you have du "franc-parler"! @Dye4minis Why royalist? @JimDuncanUK For what? @Herkybird You too you have du "franc-parler"! @advocate That's to say? @All Sir Garnett No, no ! Long live the Queen! @0ldYeller Why Roundhead? @Cerdic That's to say? @ZULUPAUL Long live the Republic? @robert piepenbrink Long live the Republic? @martin goddard For the people? Did Oliver Cromwell love the people? Wasn't it simply a war of religion? @TimePortal As an American? What is the relationship? @Sean Clark And what do you want to level? @McKinstry Charles really was a jerk? I don't know, I didn't know him. @clibinarium Confederate? You got the subject wrong. It's ECW not ACW. @Texaswalker Cromwell? With God's help? @Grattan54 Which end? @GrayBear Jesus or God? @BillyNM The zealots. Who were they? |
marmont1814 ![Sponsoring Member of TMP Sponsoring Member of TMP](boards/icons/sponsor.gif) | 01 May 2024 1:40 a.m. PST |
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clibinarium | 01 May 2024 3:56 a.m. PST |
@clibinarium Confederate?You got the subject wrong. It's ECW not ACW. Nope, that's a different type of Confederate. |
Son of MOOG | 01 May 2024 6:50 a.m. PST |
@clibinarium Confederate? You got the subject wrong. It's ECW not ACW. Nope, that's a different type of Confederate. The various factions in Ireland were "united" under the term "the Irish Confederacy" thus the Irish rebels were collectively known as "confederates". I believe there were something like 5 different Irish Armies, all with there own agendas but somewhat cooperating against the Anglo-Irish and Protestant forces. The rebellion of 1641 was originally against England in general but the king brokered a deal with Ormond to effect a cease fire and allow many Royalist leaning troops to come to England and fight for the king in 1643.They never stopped fighting against Parliament in Ireland though. Hope this helps. Its a confusing time for all involved! Tom D |
miniMo ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 May 2024 6:51 a.m. PST |
Royalist or Confederate. Old Nol and the religion of murder and oppression, ptooh! |
Son of MOOG | 01 May 2024 7:00 a.m. PST |
And oh, by the way, I would have supported the king. Parliament got to radical for me as the war went on. And remember, the original intent of parliament was not to remove the king but to remove his right to choose his own advisors, many of whom parliament disliked.Also,to insure that the king could not rule without parliament. It was the radicals that agitated for the removal of the king (and his head).It says something when parliament was eventually viewed as too radical even for the Scots Covenanters! Just sayin…….. |
mildbill | 01 May 2024 7:25 a.m. PST |
roundhead, just to stop 'the divine right of kings' stuff. |
Guillaume deGuy | 01 May 2024 8:20 a.m. PST |
I'll join Sean Clark, likely a Leveller. |
forrester | 01 May 2024 9:05 a.m. PST |
A plague on both. I recently read the novel by Robert Harris "Act of Oblivion" which was a reminder how vicious and merciless they were to each other, depending on whose turn it was to be dominant. There's no direct correlations with current political divides, tempting though it might be to choose Cromwell if you are on the left. Most people now are constitutional monarchists AND parliamentarians. |
Shagnasty ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 May 2024 9:13 a.m. PST |
Why fight for the King? Because it was the Right thing to do. |
KeepYourPowderDry ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 May 2024 10:04 a.m. PST |
Actually Clibinarium is not confused, mixing up his Civil Wars. One of the many incarnations of Irish armies was the Catholic Confederacy. Son of Moog is absolutely correct in his assessment of Irish forces – confusing. |
John the Red | 01 May 2024 10:20 a.m. PST |
Irish Confederate – my family at the time would have probably been following one of the Ulster armies (if anyone) Leveller for the English side of my family Doubtful the common folk of any area got much of a choice |
KeepYourPowderDry ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 May 2024 11:11 a.m. PST |
John the Red they could always be Clubmen |
robert piepenbrink ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 May 2024 5:48 p.m. PST |
"Old Nol and the religion of murder and oppression, ptooh!" That would be the people who instituted freedom of religion in England and let Jews return after centuries of exile, MiniMo? Everyone wants to bring a combination of half-remembered history and modern politics to bear on wars centuries old. As today, the issues were often complicated, and the sides rarely align well with 21st Century politics. |
hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 02 May 2024 2:33 a.m. PST |
@marmont1814 Why? @clibinarium Yes I understood but I wanted to laugh. @Son of MOOG Yes, I knew they weren't the same type of "confederates" but I wanted to laugh… Otherwise a king who can't govern is useless. @miniMo Royalist or Confederate and the others, ECW is downright a religious war! @mildbill In this case a king is of no use… @Guillaume deGuy And you what do you want to level? @forrester All this to harvest Oliver Cromwell then his son Richard Cromwell who succeeded him but for a very short time because General George Monck, governor of Scotland, feared that the nation would sink into chaos, and sought to reestablish the monarchy! Olivier Cromwell who was so estimable by the English people that Charles II then returned to London where he was crowned on April 23, 1661and to avenge the death of his father, had the regicides tried, and Cromwell's body exhumed from Westminster Abbey and submitted, with the remains of his stepson Henry Ireton and Judge John Bradshaw, at the ritual post-mortem execution on January 30, 1661, the anniversary of the execution of Charles I. Her body was thrown into a well and her head exposed on a stake in front of Westminster Abbey until 1685. After three centuries of vicissitudes, she was buried at Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge, on February 12, 1960. @Shagnasty At least you have du "franc-parler"! @KeepYourPowderDry Yes but that made me laugh because on another topic, there is also talk of confederation… @John the Red Yes given the times as for the WOTR, it is doubtful that ordinary people in any region would have a choice. @robert piepenbrink freedom of religion does not prevent murder and oppression. |
Martin Rapier | 02 May 2024 2:59 a.m. PST |
Roundheads. I'm not a huge fan of absolutist inherited power, however it is dressed up, although apparently it is the way of the world. But it is only a game, so I dont really care which side I play. |
miniMo ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 02 May 2024 10:16 a.m. PST |
In a world full of religious oppression, Cromwell and the Puritans really stand out amongst their rivals in the war. Also note that the Witchfinder General was running rampant and being paid very well for it by the cities in Puritan-heavy East Anglia. This was contemporaneous with the Puritans here in New England running the Salem Witch Trials. The Salem Trials were overseen by the General Court of Massachusetts (i.e. what is still the State Legislature today). Every member of that legislative body were graduates of Harvard College (what is today the Harvard Divinity School at Harvard University). They were all taught and all practiced a most murderous theology; hanging Quakers on Boston Common as well. The only freedom of religion they stood for was their own. Claiming to stand against the divine right of kings, yet Old Nol proclaimed himself chosen by god. Ptooh! |
Elenderil | 02 May 2024 3:49 p.m. PST |
I would be hiding in the cowshed when the recruiters came by! Have you seen the state of medical support available to the armies of the mid seventeenth century? Otherwise I would probably have ended up serving with the local Parliamentarian forces as my part of the North West of England was fairly solid in supporting their cause. Probably with Colonel Starkie at the battle of Whalley in Colonel Assherton's Regiment at Nantwich. |
Guillaume deGuy | 02 May 2024 6:18 p.m. PST |
Hi Paskal, I suspect that you already know what was to be levelled and are just teasing :-) Many New Model soldiers embraced the idea and some even thought that was what they had been fighting for. In a levelled England, Jude Frawley could have become the scholar and churchman he so much desired to be. |
hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 03 May 2024 4:40 a.m. PST |
@Martin Rapier For me it's the exact opposite, I'm so passionate about history that it's not a game, so I don't really care which side I play. @miniMo Yes the royalists were cooler with religion… @Elenderil I hid in the stable when the recruiters came by. Ok and how old are you now because I believe that now these wars are over. @Guillaume deGuy Yes, but I would really like you to write here what had to be leveled in England at the time :-) |
Guillaume deGuy | 03 May 2024 8:23 a.m. PST |
Hi Paskal, I don't have the requisite education to describe all the goals of the Leveller movement (in its several iterations). If you were to read the founding documents of the USA you would certainly gain a sense of them, particularly the opening of the Declaration of Independence and the first ten amendments of the Constitution. For a nice collection of Leveller documents, which should answer any questions: link Far be it from me to attempt to summarize them here. A 17th c. example (rather than the 19th c. I gave previously): In a Levelled England, John Lilburne would not have been imprisoned multiple times for simply expressing his opinion about those in power. Hope this helps. ;-) |
Cerdic | 03 May 2024 11:56 a.m. PST |
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Guillaume deGuy | 03 May 2024 12:31 p.m. PST |
One of the many iterations. Thanks Cerdic. |
huevans011 | 03 May 2024 6:20 p.m. PST |
If I had to go to war, I would sell my sword to the highest bidder in continental Europe. I'd probably choose France. Less cataclysmic than Germany. Or a nice, stable siege-focused army like the Dutch. |
hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 04 May 2024 12:54 a.m. PST |
@Guillaume deGuy John Lilburne the Puritan who became a Quaker. Whipped, pilloried, and imprisoned several times where he was cruelly treated then he in turn criticized parliament and again was imprisoned then sentenced to be banished in the Netherlands at Bruges where he undertook to overthrow Cromwell, the Parliament, and the Council of State, within six months, but with the exception of the Duke of Buckingham, none of the royalists placed any confidence in him. After the expulsion of the Rump in April 1653, he returned but the government at once arrested him, and lodged him in Newgate… Lilburne died at Eltham 29 August 1657… As he was the type to criticize any government, given the times he was lucky not to be executed in a public place.… @Cerdic Iteration, the action of repeating several times is boring. @huevans011 And the continentals in the ECW? Did anyone participate in ECW? As a mercenary or otherwise? |
piper909 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 05 May 2024 9:28 p.m. PST |
Gotta go with the Royalists. The hypocrisy and fanaticism of those Roundhead Puritans drives me nuts, plus I admire Montrose and couldn't fight against the Highland Scots who stood with him. |
hi EEE ya ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 06 May 2024 1:32 a.m. PST |
@ piper909 You too you have du "franc-parler"! |
Jefthro3 | 17 May 2024 3:41 p.m. PST |
20 years or more ago this would have been an easy answer being at the time a Deacon in a nonconformist Church with antecedents to Oliver Cromwell , but now after serving in Her Majesty's Forces and currently an Anglican l guess l would have to be Royalist ….. |