"Quote attributed to Tilly about shot wings." Topic

I have read the Tilly wrote that wings of shot should not exceed 20 files in width. This was because wider wings would not be protected by the pikemen, presumably as they would be too far from the central pike division to run for shelter. This seems to derive from Guthries works on battles of the TYW.

However I cant find any reference as to where Tilly wrote or said this and I know Guthrie's works have some issues. So TMP hive mind does anyone know where to find the primary source to support Tilly having written or said this.

I have never heard that quote. I don't remember it from Guthrie, but it's been a while since I read his work.

Raimondo Montecuccoli, The Military Intellectual and Battle, might be an option to find out more. My copy of his work is leant out at the moment so I can check myself.

Steven^s Balagan – William Guthrie on Tilly^s Big Tercios

I don't believe a 20 files maximum referred to being covered by pikes – more likely to be about battle management of the files marching out to make a firing line.

If a pair of files issued out of the wing then you'd get ten (20 / 2) firings per "cycle" of a couple of minutes.

In the post from Steve's Balagan he quotes what aim assuming is Guthrie:

"Tilly wrote that these should never exceed twenty files, as the outlying men would be too far away to be protected by the pikes". What I am looking for is where did Tilly write this if he actually did.

How did the central pike block protect the sleeves of shot in the 1630's – 1640's anyway?

Were the pikes just present as a very solid central core of well-protected men that any charging line of cavalry would have to avoid impacting, leaving the cavalry hitting the sleeves of shot unsupported?

This page shows details from Pieter Snayer's painting of Battle of White Mountain 1620:

AKG IMAGES – Snayers White Mountain

It might just be artistic convention but the musketeers are either a few deep around the pike blocks (garrisons) or massed at the rear.

The garrisons appear to be few enough for pikes to give cover.

I believe at this time the horse used their pistols more than their swords – so they'd have to shoot their way through the garrisons before they could engage the pikes.

NB the pikes all appear to be armoured.