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"Small arms vs. FPV drones" Topic


14 Posts

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928 hits since 27 Mar 2024
©1994-2026 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Dan in Vermont27 Mar 2024 7:31 a.m. PST

So everyday on YouTube I seen countless videos of both Russian and Ukrainian FPV (First-Person-View) drone strikes. One thing I never see however is someone in the intended target area firing back to try and shoot the drone down. Granted the videos are only showing successful drone strikes but given the fragility of these FPV drones it seems like a squad of AKs firing or roof-mounted MG would have shot some down by now. Thoughts?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Mar 2024 8:14 a.m. PST

Apparently the Russians have tried putting infantry on tanks, not just as tank riders, but as defense against drones.

However, there are drone strike videos against tanks with tank riders, so apparently the riders can't see the drones, and can't hear them over the noise of the tank.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2024 9:01 a.m. PST

Well just because it is seen in a video, may not mean they can effectively engage the drone, etc. E.g. in the Army we were trained to lay down on our backs in a line. With everyone firing up in the air in the direction the aircraft was coming. And let the aircraft flying into the "wall" of fire. That was better than nothing. But you may get lucky ?

Of course, our MGs, e.g. M60s and later M249 SAWS, would try to engage the aircraft as one would expect. Generally, an MG has a high ROF than an Assault Rifle, etc. Light Infantry Cos. like when I was Plt Ldr with the 101, we don't have heavy MGs. As when I commanded a Mech unit, with M113s. E.g. the M2 .50 cal., which we generally always kept mounted on the track. But even then, the .50 cal. was not on an AA mount however, still could engage aircraft.

Something about AA fire, if you put up enough firepower, the attacking aircraft may try to jinx and avoid being hit. They would see the tracer rounds, etc. Which may make them miss their target. Or they may just abort to avoid all the fire.

Drones may react in a similar …

Bill makes a good point the troops riding on tanks may not even see or hear the drone(s) and by the time they do it will be too late. If you ever have been on or in an AFV, they make a lot of noise. Plus, generally you are holding on to something. So, you don't fall off, as if the AFV bounces across certain types of terrain.

Especially at night, if you fall off, the AFV behind the AFV you were on, etc. … you could get overrun/killed, etc.

So even with NVGs you may have a hard time spotting a drone. IMO the best weapons to take out a drone is the MG mounted in front of the TC's hatch. But the TC may be too busy to effectively use it ? So the Infantry riding on the tank may help ?

Another thing to consider, is if the tank is moving you will have a harder time hitting the drone(s). If you even can see it. Just like it the Cowboy movies trying to shoot accurately from a moving horse is generally a waste of ammo. Of course, a horse can move faster than an e.g. MBT. But firing from a moving vehicle is still challenging.


Plus, larger drones like the US Reaper and Predator may be too high to see, with the naked eye, etc. You may see the Hellfires, etc., incoming ordinance but again by that time it will be too late.

The smaller lower flying drones we see being used are much smaller than those bigger drones. Of course, the smaller size may make it harder to hit. They could even use terrain masking like a helicopter does. Hiding behind tall trees, etc. Then striking again by that time it may be too late.

Personal logo McKinstry Supporting Member of TMP Fezian27 Mar 2024 9:47 a.m. PST

I would think shooting an FPV drone with an assault rifle would be a much harder shot than shooting sporting clays with a shotgun, and that is not exactly per se easy. Small target, uneven/ jinking course, not really an ideal weapon for that purpose.

Timbo W27 Mar 2024 11:32 a.m. PST

Could be survivorship bias, ie we only get shown the video from drones that didn't get shot down.

Andy ONeill27 Mar 2024 12:28 p.m. PST

Pretty tricky shooting directly up.
They're small, moving targets.
Likely very difficult to even see.
If you did shoot one down then what happens with it's improvised bomblet thingummies?

smithsco27 Mar 2024 1:52 p.m. PST

I've seen some videos of Ukrainians carrying shotguns for the explicit purpose of defending from FPVs

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP27 Mar 2024 5:25 p.m. PST

McK +1

Andy +1

If you did shoot one down then what happens with it's improvised bomblet thingummies?
Well I'd think like e.g. if a Scud is hit and falls to the ground and may or may not blow up.

smithco +1

Ukrainians carrying shotguns for the explicit purpose of defending from FPVs
It should work as we know the shotgun round has multiple pellets. Giving it a better chance of hitting the drone. But they still may be affected if they are in a vehicle that is moving, etc.

Dragon Gunner28 Mar 2024 1:28 a.m. PST

I wonder what counter measures will be developed?

1. Each vehicle gets its own point defense like an automated computer operated minigun or shotgun?

2. The come back of ZSU-23-4 type systems (or some other countries equivalent) to detect and shoot drones down?

3. On board small missiles to intercept drones?

4. Some kind of NEW reactive armor that blows outwards and takes down the drone moments before impact? (Yes I know what reactive armor is, how it works and yes I am aware of the potential for collateral damage so please no soap box grand standing or strawman attacks…)

5. Drones that hunt and kill drones?

6. Electronic counter measure / jamming?

7. EMP pulse?

Infantry attempting to hit things with small arms is probably ineffective but better than nothing. It also relies on the infantry to be aware 100% of the time and that is probably not going to happen.

backstab28 Mar 2024 2:00 a.m. PST

ECM is very effective against drones but unfortunately ( fortunately for the. Russians) for the Ukrainians, the systems are rare.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2024 8:52 a.m. PST

AFAIK ECM is being worked on to combat drones. But as noted they are not widespread… yet …

Anti-Drone Drones may be in the planning now. I.e. HK Drones … It could be one of the next levels in the Drone's evolution.

Andy ONeill28 Mar 2024 9:48 a.m. PST

Eagles have been known to attack drones. I've read explanations like they're territorial. I think it could just be they're aggressive.

We have kestrels round here.
Pretty small birds of prey.
We also have gulls. The huge ones. Bit of a nuisance really but they're protected.

Gulls don't like birds of prey much.
They mob buzzards occasionally.

I saw a couple of gulls try and mob a kestrel a while back.
They soon stopped.
The kestrel whipped round and raked one of the gulls with it's talons.

14Bore Supporting Member of TMP30 Mar 2024 4:21 a.m. PST

Maybe a Hunter Killer Drone is needed.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP30 Mar 2024 11:43 a.m. PST

The best weapon against a Drone may be another Drone. That could be the tactic to use.

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