"What to do about medics?" Topic

We are having discussions about medics in our TOE's. Our rules dont have medics in them as a function, as it adds more rules than we thik are usefull. However we like to keep our TOE's credible so need to do something, our last effort was to just leave him out of the theorectical count of bodies in say an AFV but put a note in that he has been left out. The problem is if you forget, you start wondering why the TOE number of troops in an AFV number is lower than the AFV capacity.

Do we add him or keep the note.

What do you think?

PS we always provide the theoretical full TOE, its perfectly acceptable for players to reduce the number to reflect some scanario issue, lost vehicle, wounded trfoops not replaces etc.

One of the good things in Stargrunt II was their medics. However in larger games like Maneouvre Group we had to lose some detail to keep game speed acceptable. Compromise is a neccessary evil.

You said it yourself, having Medics will add more rules than are useful. I've often heard of Medics referred to as "Necromancers" because of their use (in games) for bring figures back from the dead….

I say leave them out. And if an incomplete TO&E causes lost sleep, leave a note….

Dave

I've sometimes mused about the naval dimension of this question. How does one address the question of when/whether any ship can/should/must stop to pick up survivors?

During the Taffy 3 battle off Samar the Japanese destroyer Shimakaze was essentially combat ineffective as she was crammed with 635 Musashi survivors.

I would think that you could use Medics without too much in the way of extra rules. They could improve a saving roll if within "x" number of inches, they could reduce a wound point or they could simply be a morale boost for units (as they know they will receive some care if hit).

If part of determining victory is looking TOEs and counting up casualties, one way to address it might be that each medic should be able to reduce the KIA or serious WIA numbers by at least one for a game as they work on casualties. No extra rules for the game.

Fitzovich – Our rules are at a higher level and use a completely different system so there is no way to fit that sort of thing in without completely new rules and with a company of figures the gain does not justify the pain in our eyes. Do you do this in your games?

HMS Exeter – interesting.
PzGeneral +1

My Vietnam collection has medics and wounded. At the start of COVID I ran a mass of Fireforce missions using One-hour Skirmish rules. In that system, figures that are hit get laid on their side. At the end of the round, a card is drawn to show their status (dead, wounded, or OK). Each RLI stick had a trooper trained as a medic. My house rule was that if a medic came into base to base contact before the round ended, the worst the trooper could get was wounded.

Since KIA's made up a major victory condition, getting a medic to any downed figure became a major priority.

Do you keep track of individual figures and their status?

@hmsexeter:

Father was on WW2 RN convoys. If a ship went down – the destroyers went through the wreckage hunting for the u-boat.

Watching BBC news re RN action vs Houthis – RN had beards AND anti-flash. Father said beards always came off when leaving dock – burning oil sticks to hair in the water.

@ushcha

Use medics as wild-cards:

- Need the ATV? Medics have nicked it for cas-evac
- Attempting to replen mortar ammo ex IFV? Bad luck – full of medical supplies.
- Retrieved airborne weapons canister? Oh dear – Covid test-kits and appropriate PPE instead.

StarGrunt uses medics to evaluate casualties (change in status markers) with additional morale penalties for lost medics. SG also makes units a bit more 'brittle' than some gamers are used to. One casualty can make a fire team 'hug dirt' and reduce their effectiveness.

Simple matrix chart die roll on medics can easily be done.
Historically medics mean nothing. If the wound is serious or unable to use legs, soldier survival is almost nil.
Evacuation from the spot with enemy swarming is near impossible.
So rules are not needed for medics.

On smaller scale games, casualties means morale problems.
In reality, if medics are available, morale is kept pretty stable simply by knowing help is available.

"Smith got hit, but Doc is looking at him right now."

If you have any kind of moral rules or values, they should be able to have some kind of ability to either retain or stabilize it a bit.

Personally, I think most rules overrate medics. I can see a morale bonus. I think medics are more important if you are playing a campaign, but then you are really looking more at the number of trained people providing prehospital emergency care, and the quality of the care. To further complicate things, you may be taking riflemen out of the line to help evac the seriously wounded to a battalion aid station.

I despise Medic rules: they are complex, they slow the game, and they prolong the game play, with little benefit. I want a decisive outcome, not a lengthy post-mortem discussion trying to puzzle out who won.

My two centavos. Cheers!

Sgt Slag, that is why I like and use dice toll matrix charts. They are fast, quick to apply especially if you are modifying factors.

79thPA+1

I like medics and medic rules. They add a dimension of realism that I enjoy.

Troops are people: stressed out, confident, scared, impulsive, over-analytical, etc. They panic and freeze, or panic and run, or stand and fight. They stop to treat their wounded and get them off the field. They surrender and deal with surrendering enemies.

All of these things complicate real battles. They are the complexities with which real officers are concerned. I think of myself and the other players as playing the top officers leading the troops on the table and dealing with at least some of the problems real officers face.

I have played and run GDW's Striker and GZG's StarGrunt quite a lot, including their rules for medics. Both games have sensible rules for medics that work well in game.

To someone's comment about filling out the TOE: Units are often under their TOE strength, whether in terms of personnel, weapons, support, vehicles (or animals, depending), etc. I recommend just rolling with it.