"Questions about O Group and Battlegroup" Topic

First thing I was wondering about, in your experience, how long does each game take to play on at larger point scales. For O Group, I mean larger games where defenders get something like 25 points plus 2D6 rolls of points and for Battlegroup, I mean battalion level games of 1500 points or more.

The other thing I am confused about is the scale in Battlegroup. Is it 1:1, as in one figure represents one soldier? Like what does one base of several figures actually represent in the game?

For example, how am I supposed to represent an infantry platoon? Could I have one five-man stand represent a section? Or if we are talking about even larger scales, can one five-man stand represent the entire platoon?

Not familiar enough with O Group to comment but have played many games of Battlegroup (love the rules!). Essentially, it's 1-1, in that a squad of 10 men is 10 figures and a model is 1 vehicle.

So, a German infantry platoon would be a command squad and 3 infantry squads, with your selection of heavy weapons, such as a MMG, AT rifle, mortar, etc.

As to how long to play, a 1500-point game would take at least 4 hours. Depends on how familiar players are with rules, and battlefield (urban games take longer, in my experience).

So it really doesn't matter how they're based, as long as you got 10 figures? Theoretically you could have 10 single bases of 1 figure or 1 base of 10 figures?

Battle group is more of a company + rules.
Battle group treats 1 tank = 2

I'm currently adapting NORTHAG to WW2 with a slightly expanded AT/armour table and some infantry section firepower difference for SMG,high&low firepower

10 figures, no matter how they are based. Loss is by figure so you need caps or a marker to note lossex if multibased.

So Battlegroup can it handle historical OBs? (like American rifle squad went from 8 to 12 men, 3 squads in a platoon, 3 platoons in a company (plus HQ and Heavy weapons Platoon and any attachments like engineers, etc.)

I mean as long as you have a way to track casualties you probably don't even need 10 figures, do you?

The thing is, I want to play battalion-sized games, but I don't want to have to paint like 600 figures. I love the concept of O Group and it is definitely a game I'd play, but I find it a bit limiting compared to Battlegroup. I always use historically inspired OBs but want some flexibility and diversity in unit types too, which O Group has much less of compared to Battlegroup.

Which handles historical OBs better when one ditches the points systems?

Also, which addresses the support elements better? Historically for the US. there were 10 men behind the scenes supporting one man in combat. Which set handles tactical doctrines best?

Thanks.

I can't speak on O Group, but I can on Battlegroup. Battlegroup has a rule book and then the has books as theater books which gives you the units available for that time frame. The Overlord Book – Beyond the Beaches theater book has the Americans in 12 men squads with a 7-man rifle team and a 5-man Bar team. If you don't use the actual tactics of WW2, you won't last long on the battlefield. Lots of players do use historic OB's, you can figure out the points (to show how close in strength you are to your opponent) but what's more important is to assign the correct BR (Battle Rating) to your command. The Battle Rating is lowered when you take chits for when units are destroyed or when unpinning units. Once you equal your Battle Rating it's like receiving a radio message to break off contact and pull back. Most Theater books have some scenario's in the back of that book. Off table artillery, fighter bomber attacks, tanks are all involved. There is a huge Facebook group for these rules, for any questions that arise, but also for discussion on the rules, answers to any question will get a prompt answer either from the authors or from the many long time players of the rules.

This will work well as I am familiar with O group but not battlegroup.
O group really doesn't use points as I recall. It uses companies and platoons grouped into a battalion. A normal battalion v battalion takes about 3 hours maybe a little less. If one side loses 12 squads they are considered defeated. Occasionally that might take an hour the way I roll.
That help?

Joe

There are points in the back of the O Group rulebook, Ch 18 onwards re Battalion Structure. They are pretty high level though.

O Group forces a minimum "basic historical" OOBs in that each battalion has to have 3 companies of grunts before you can buy all the Tigers :) It is at the 1 base (c 4 figs) = 1 section scale and as standard denote 3 sections per ifnatry platoon, 2 AFV/guns etc per HW platoon equivalent

We use it for Imagi-Nations as well, so the fairly general nature of these rules works well for us.

O Group states that a standard battalion (HQ + 9 sections + 1 Mortar – ie 10 units) gives 9 Orders (= Activations) and a Big battalion of "more than this" gives 10 Orders.

Our bigger battles are typically Big Battalion (12 units = 9 sections + Mortar section, AT section, HMG section) + for eg a Recce Co, and 3 or 4 armour / field artillery / etc sections.

We play this in about a c 4 – 5 hour game at that size, the better you know the rules the shorter it gets :)

Problem with "big battalions" is if you field a lot more units than a standard Battalion (as you can see, we are often at c 18-odd units, the 10 Order limit Big Battalion format starts to slow the game doWn. There is a "Battlegroup" option but it goes up in Battalion sizes, not best for "Battalion + Attached Forces"

IMO after you ar at about 12 elements you need to start adding an extra Order per unit used

Fwiw if you want a larger "1 base = 1 platoon" scale IMO Fistful of TOWs is pretty good for that