"The Story Behind the True Events that Inspired 'Kelly's" Topic

…Heroes'

""Kelly's Heroes" is a war movie like no other. The 1970 film is set in World War II Europe and features a group of ne'er-do-wells who learn about a cache of stolen Nazi gold behind enemy lines and form a mission to get it for themselves.

Not only was the gold far behind enemy lines, the Germans were in the process of making a big push against the Allies while supply problems stalled the push into Europe. The gold was also in a locked bank, guarded by a team of Tiger tanks. It's not really a spoiler to reveal that Kelly's makeshift platoon gets the gold in the end -- but it might be a surprise to learn the heist was based in reality…"

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Armand

I knew it …!

I have spent half the day researching the tank he used. more on the gun it mounted.This started me and, yes, I do need to get a life.

Oddball is quoted as saying that his pipe extension is to make his 76m look like 90mm. No way. That turret could never carry a 76mm. The US tried it once and gave up. The mantlet also is for a 75mm on an M4A3E4, not an E8, Easy Eight. Almost every site on line has that wrong and goes with what Donald Sutherland said.

What a great film and give me Oddball over Wardaddy anyday, leading my small group of Shermans. I might get home

(smile)

Armand

I love Kelly's Heroes as a movie. As noted there are some errors in accuracy, but it also does one HUGE disservice when Oddball states that the only way for a Sherman to knock out a Tiger I is from behind. Generations of gamers and aficionados have accepted that as truth, and it just ain't so. According to Senger and Etterlin's classic "German Tanks of World War II" the rear armor of a Tiger I is 82mm thick, sloped at 82 degrees. But its SIDE armor is only 80mm above the road wheels and 60mm behind them, with no slope at all. So really, it would be slightly easier to knock one out firing at it from the side than the rear. Sorry Oddball!

when Oddball states that the only way for a Sherman to knock out a Tiger I is from behind.

If I recall correctly, the same myth is repeated in "Fury," when in fact the 76mm was, as you point out, quite capable of punching through a Tiger's flank armor.

Deadhead -

My understanding is that Oddball's Sherman was an M4a3e7 provided by the Yugoslav army. This was a regular 75mm Sherman with the 76mm retro-fitted. The original Sherman turret was designed to mount the 75mm, 76mm, and the 105 howitzer. Armored branch thought the 76mm made the turret too cramped*, and the 75mm seemed adequate for most purposes, so they passed on it. By the time they decided they wanted the 76mm, the purpose-designed T23 turret was available, so they used that.

After the war the U.S. retro-fitted some M4a3 75mm tanks with the 76 and handed them out to allies and would-be allies like Yugoslavia. These were designated "e7." Any complaints about the turret being cramped went unheeded, since they were coming from non-American sources who'd gotten the tanks for free. I doubt there were a lot of channels for foreign tankers to provide feedback to the U.S. Ordinance Board anyway.

*but not as cramped as a Sherman Firefly, which got the job done regardless of how uncomfortable the crew might have been.

At least that's my recollection of what happened, gleaned from watching too many of Chieftain's videos and some books I have.

More information on the Kelly's Heroes Shermans here.

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Sent a PM to Mseratin to thank but must also say the same to Trockledockle. Yet again, something I just "know" to be wrong turns out….well differently, shall we say?

You can fit a 76 gun into a "proper" Sherman turret after all. OK, they did it for the 17pdr, so just select little guys to man it I guess.

I had heard of an Easy Eight of course, but now an Easy Seven!

Thanks

Armand

didn't the Israelis fit a 105mm into a sherman turret
i assume that was a proper turret?

Fitting a 105 Howitzer was a different challenge and US managed that in WWII in their thousands. M4, M4A3, both VVSS plus those with HVSS suspension. But an A/T capable gun is a much higher velocity weapon and different dimensions (or at least I imagine so!)

The Israelis fitted the French 105mm high velocity gun into the larger T23 turret. However, the Argentines replaced the 17pdr with the same 105mm in Fireflies with the original (smaller) turret.

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Amazing how adaptable the Sherman did prove, even (or perhaps especially?) post war. Thanks again

It seems from this that the 105mm breech was smaller than the 17pdr so there was more room in the Repotenciado. The hulls must have been 75 years old when they were retired.

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Thanks also…

Those are still on duty… in Paraguayan Army…

Armand